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有人喜欢研究UFO地外文明的吗?

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151#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 13:59:03 | 只看该作者

回复 #149 cello 的帖子

那你怎么说UFO研究没逻辑?

他们对 怀疑为飞碟降落的地点 进行测试 例如测试其放射性等等 (事实上很多这些地点 上面的动植物都是几年内无生命痕迹 植物动物都死光光在这个上面)

他们对这个降落地点本身进行探测 难道你说没逻辑?


需要什么逻辑? 谁不想活生生捉到一只外星人? 但是现在的技术不可能
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152#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:01:32 | 只看该作者
鉴于很多人把科学知识和科学态度老是弄混,特转个科普文章,给想看的看看:

FROM: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_scientific_attitude

Bhaskara Rao (1989) stated that the most useful scientific attitudesare open mindedness, critical mindedness, respect for evidence,suspended judgment, intellectual honesty, willingness to changeopinion, search for truth, curiosity, rational thinking, etc.


Scientific attitude is really a composite of a number of mentalhabits, or of tendencies to react consistently in certain ways to anovel or problematic situation. These habits or tendencies includeaccuracy, intellectual honesty, open-mindedness, suspended judgment,criticalness, and a habit of looking for true cause and effectrelationships. It is a cognitive concept; scientific attitudes arenormally associated with the mental processes of scientists. Thesehabits are important in the everyday life and thinking, not only of thescientist, but of everyone.
Scientific attitudes possess attributes thought to be eithertrue or false and do not express an evaluative quality. To lessen thesemantic confusion, scientific attitudes may be better labeled as"scientific attributes". The attributes of scientific attitude arerationality, curiosity, open mindedness, aversion to superstitions,objectivity in intellectual honesty and suspended judgment.

Rationality 理性

It means 'the quality or condition of being rational'.Philosophers have the view that the aim of science is the achievementof truth and the avoidance of error (Goldman, 1999). On this view,science is rational to the extent that the beliefs that it accumulatesare true, and scientific reasoning is rational to the extent that ittends to produce true beliefs. Rationality, normally defined as givingreasons for actions or for holding beliefs. Man is a rational animal.Rationality is the process of using reason or logic to solve a problem.
A logical argument is sometimes described as "rational" if itis logically valid. However, rationality is a much broader term thanlogic, as it includes "uncertain but sensible" arguments based onprobability, expectation, personal experience and the like, whereaslogic deals principally with provable facts and demonstrably validrelations between them.
First of all, rationality is objective - it exists only when avalid practical syllogism is used. Second, a choice is either rationalor it is not - there is no gradation since there is no gradationbetween valid and invalid arguments. Third, rationality only applies toactions - i.e., shutting the window is a rational thing to do if youare cold (assuming it is cold outside).
A person with rationality will prefer the reason in all theactions. That is the thing one should learn form science."Cause-and-effect" underlies everything. In simple mechanisms, anaction causes a reaction, and effects do not occur without causes. Thisdoes not mean that some processes are not random or chaotic. But acausative agent does not alone produce one effect today and anothertomorrow.
He will show the tendency to test traditional beliefs for reason.


·  Commitment to the value of rationality
·  Tendency to test traditional beliefs
·  Seeking for natural causes of events and identification of cause and effect relationships
·  Acceptance of criticalness
·  Challenge of authority

Curiosity 好奇心

Curiosity is an innate capability of many living beings, but itcan not be subsumed under category of instinct because it lacks thequality of fixed action pattern; it is rather one of innate basicemotions because it can be expressed in many flexible ways whileinstinct is always expressed in a fixed way, and like any innatecapability it confers a survival advantage to certain species, and canbe found in their genomes.


Every one shows desire for understanding new situations ingeneral life. One will get so many new situations if they open sciencebooks but how may of them are interested to understand them is a bigquestion mark?
Newspaper will reflect on the publics' attitude. If there isany accident especially crime then public will show interest toinvestigate the situation and it will present in the front page atnews, head lines in news channels and life coverage with modernfacilities but if there is any peculiar thing related to science isinnovated by Indian scientist that will occupy the last page only. Thefindings, which are controversial to the religion, will come to thefront page in the media. In 2006, the news of solar system came in tomedia for reducing the number planets around the sun. The news in'EENADU' daily came as now how can u go for astrology? Because thenumber of planets in astrology is, nine but now scientists reduced toseven. The difference between astrological planets and the astrologyplanets is not considered in this news.
Child is the first scientist. It is the answer given to thechildren by our great professor A. P. J. Abdul Kalam because curiosityis more among the children. They wish to see the outer world and poseso many questions to the elders. Elders will get confused to answer thequeries of the children. They never satisfy with the half answer.
Open mindedness 开放意识
In the language of the general public, open-mindedness means being opento possible theories and explanations for a particular phenomenon. Butin science, it means that and something more. Philosopher JonathanAdler (1998) teaches us that science values another aspect ofopen-mindedness even more highly: "What truly marks an open-mindedperson is the willingness to follow where evidence leads. Theopen-minded person is willing to defer to impartial investigationsrather than to his own predilections...Scientific method is attunementto the world, not to ourselves".
When Harold Urey, author of one textbook theory on the originof the moon's surface, examined the moon rocks brought back from theApollo mission, he immediately recognized this theory did not fit thehard facts laying before him. "I've been wrong!" he proclaimed withoutany thought of defending the theory he had supported for decades.
Aversion to superstitious beliefs 厌恶迷信
A superstition is the belief that events are influencedby specific behaviors, without having a causal relationship.Superstition is derived from the Latin words "super" (over, beyond) and"sto, stare" (to stand). Therefore, superstion means one who overlystands, or not being progressive. A superstition is a false beliefbased on ignorance (e.g., if we don't beat the drums during an eclipse, the evil demon won't return the sun to the sky), fear of the unknown(e.g., if we don't chop up this chicken in just the right way and burnit according to tradition while uttering just the right incantationsthen the rain won't come and our crops won't grow and we'll starve), trust in magic (e.g., if I put spit or dirt on my beautiful child who has been praised, the effects of the evil eye will be averted), trust in chance (if I open this book randomly and let my finger fall to any word that word will guide my future actions), or some other false conception of causation.


In the academic discipline of folkloristic the term "superstition" isused to denote any folk belief expressed in if/then (with an optional"unless" clause) format. If you break a mirror, then you will have seven years of bad luck unless you throw all of the pieces into a body of running water. In this usage, the term is not pejorative.


Superstitions are based on general, culturally variable beliefs in asupernatural "reality". Depending on a given culture's belief set, itssuperstitions may relate to things that are not fully understood orknown, such as cemeteries, animals, demons, a devil, deceasedancestors, the weather, ripping one's sock, gambling, sports, food,holidays, occupations, excessive scrupulosity, death, luck, andspirits. In Western folklore, traditional superstitions associated withbad luck include Friday the 13th, walking under a ladder, and blackcats. A Friday occurring on the 13thday of any month is considered to be a day of bad luck in English,German, Polish, Bulgarian and Portuguese-speaking cultures around theglobe. Indian subcontinent there are so many superstitutions as apregnant woman should avoid going outside during an eclipse in order toprevent her baby being born with a facial birthmark. No scientist canknow all of the experimental evidence underlying current scienceconcepts and therefore must adopt some views without understandingtheir basis. A scientist rejects superstition and prefers scienceparadigms out of an appreciation for the power of reality basedknowledge.
Superstition and psychology

B.F. Skinner placed a series of hungry pigeons in a cageattached to an automatic mechanism that delivered food to the pigeon"at regular intervals with no reference whatsoever to the bird'sbehavior". He discovered that the pigeons associated the delivery ofthe food with whatever chance actions they had been performing as itwas delivered, and that they continued to perform the same actions:
One bird was conditioned to turn counter-clockwise about thecage, making two or three turns between reinforcements. Anotherrepeatedly thrust its head into one of the upper corners of the cage. Athird developed a 'tossing' response, as if placing its head beneath aninvisible bar and lifting it repeatedly. Two birds developed a pendulummotion of the head and body, in which the head was extended forward andswung from right to left with a sharp movement followed by a somewhatslower return. ("'Superstition' in the Pigeon", B.F. Skinner, Journalof Experimental Psychology #38, 1947)
Skinner suggested that the pigeons believed that they wereinfluencing the automatic mechanism with their "rituals" and that theexperiment also shed light on human behavior:
The experiment might be said to demonstrate a sort ofsuperstition. The bird behaves as if there were a causal relationbetween its behavior and the presentation of food, although such arelation is lacking. There are many analogies in human behavior.Rituals for changing one's luck at cards are good examples. A fewaccidental connections between a ritual and favorable consequencessuffice to set up and maintain the behavior in spite of manyunreinforced instances. The bowler who has released a ball down thealley but continues to behave as if he were controlling it by twistingand turning his arm and shoulder is another case in point. Thesebehaviors have, of course, no real effect upon one's luck or upon aball half way down an alley, just as in the present case the food wouldappear as often if the pigeon did nothing -- or, more strictlyspeaking, did something else.
Like the pigeons, many people associate behavior (head-turningor worship of God(s)) with an external phenomenon that was notnecessarily connected in any way with personal behavior. Does eatingchicken before a baseball game improve batting? Wade Boggs, one ofbaseball history's best hitters, believed it did: He ate chicken dailyfor over 20 years. It may seem silly, but millions of people worldwideperform similar rituals for luck. In his newly updated book, Believingin Magic (Oxford University Press, 2000), Stuart A. Vyse, Ph.D., apsychology professor at Connecticut College, investigates why so manyrational people believe so strongly in things that seem so irrational.
"We face many important and uncertain challenges, andsuperstition provides the illusion of control when it's lacking," Vysesays. Practicing superstition can be psychologically beneficial."Superstitious rituals can reduce tension and give a sense that you'redoing what you can to help out," he says.

Objectivity-intellectual honesty客观的心智和诚实

Objectivity, another form of intellectual honesty in research,means that we let nature "speak for itself" without imposing our wisheson it--that we report the results of experimentation as accurately aswe can and that we interpret them as fairly as possible. Objectivity iscritical to the process of science, but it does not mean that suchattitudes must characterize each and every scientist for science as awhole to work.
There is an objective base proof on heaven and hell. Thetemperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authorityis the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads, Moreover,the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light ofthe sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days. Thus, heavenreceives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from thesun, and in addition, seven times seven (forty nine) times as much asthe earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light wereceive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receivefrom the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute thetemperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it tothe point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heatreceived by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as muchheat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth powerlaw for radiation

(H/E)4 = 50



where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300°K(273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798°absolute (525°C).
The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must beless than 444.6°C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changesfrom a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."A lake of molten brimstone [sulfur] means that its temperature must beat or below the boiling point, which is 444.6°C. We have then,temperature of heaven, 525°C (977°F). Temperature of the hell is lessthan 445°F. Therefore, heaven is hotter than hell.
Jacob Bronowski (1977) often argued that the unique power ofscience to reveal knowledge about the world does not arise becausescientists are uniquely virtuous. It arises because fallible scientistsare immersed in a process of checks and balances--aprocess in which scientists are always there to criticize and to rootout errors. Philosopher Daniel Dennett (1999/2000) points out that"scientists take themselves to be just as weak and fallible as anybodyelse, but recognizing those very sources of error in themselves. Theyhave devised elaborate systems to tie their own hands, forciblypreventing their frailties and prejudices from infecting theirresults".

    Suspended judgment暂缓论断All good scientists are skeptics. This means that they maintain anattitude of doubt or of suspended judgment about scientific ideas.Innon-legal contexts, a judgmentis a balanced weighing up of evidence preparatory to making a decision.The formal process of evaluation can sometimes be described as a set ofconditions and criteria that must be satisfied in order for a judgmentto be made. Diederich describes: "A scientist tries hard not to form anopinion on a given issue until he has investigated it, because it is sohard to give up opinion already formed, and they tend to make us findfacts that support the opinions... There must be however, a willingnessto act on the best hypothesis that one has time or opportunity toform."
The subject matter of science has been described as "judgmentson which it is possible to obtain universal agreement." These judgmentsdo not concern individual events, which can be witnessed only by a fewpersons at most. They are the invariable association of events orproperties, which are known as the laws of science. Agreement isobtained by observation and experiment - a court of appeal to which menof all races and creeds must submit if they wish to survive.

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参与人数 1威望 +10 收起 理由
Port_1433 + 10 好长的英文,不看了,给你加点分。

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153#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:01:47 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 12:55 发表
算了吧

反正 中国以前是没有UFO探索的  

是外来之物 二站期间 某美国还是哪个国的飞军在天空中看到的UFO。。。后来这个人 终生成为飞碟研究者


我前面说的那些话和UFO是不是中国人最先搞的有关系吗?外国人有人研究飞碟,并不等于外国人在搞正规的科学研究的时候就不够拘谨。中国人没研究飞碟(虽然飞碟探索是中国的杂志),也不等于说中国就没有很多“民科”在发表大量不严谨的“学术研究”。中国和外国都不是只有一个人,也都不是只在做一件事情。不过外国人有更多的把严谨性研究和娱乐性研究能分清楚。而中国人无论是“研究者”还是读者,能分清的相对少些(我只是说相对少些而已)。造成该拘谨的时候不拘谨,不该拘谨的时候瞎拘谨。

[ 本帖最后由 ozbird 于 26-5-2009 13:05 编辑 ]
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154#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:02:46 | 只看该作者

回复 #151 cello 的帖子

到底是什么?

还有什么 就是怀疑有外星人来过地球 还从很多古籍上发现一些类似的描述
还很多目击报道(人证 录像 大面积的人证 不同地区同时同一事件的录像)
于是怀疑其为外星来客

于是对这批目击者研究 对这批录像研究 对这些声称降落地点研究
就这样

研究未果就继续研究
继续等待下一次UFO的光临

有什么不科学不和逻辑吗?
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155#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:03:05 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 12:29 发表
那你怎么说UFO研究没逻辑?

他们对 怀疑为飞碟降落的地点 进行测试 例如测试其放射性等等 (事实上很多这些地点 上面的动植物都是几年内无生命痕迹 植物动物都死光光在这个上面)

他们对这个降落地点本身进行探 ...

是你说要什么逻辑我才这么说的啊
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156#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:04:05 | 只看该作者
和 你们搞人文的谈得比较头疼。。。。
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157#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:05:56 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:04 发表
和 你们搞人文的谈得比较头疼。。。。


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158#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:06:19 | 只看该作者

回复 #153 coredump 的帖子

大大

不用担心每个飞碟探索者都是浪漫的幻想家
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159#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:06:46 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:04 发表
和 你们搞人文的谈得比较头疼。。。。


对了,谈了这么半天,还不知道Jessi MM是搞什么的。
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160#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:07:17 | 只看该作者

回复 #158 coredump 的帖子

大大 你是童心未老啊  
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161#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:09:42 | 只看该作者

回复 #160 ozbird 的帖子

搞生产滴 鸟版

哦 是了
以前想考考古系 未果
想考探险系 未果
想考天文 未果


现在是一为移民 为钱财奔波的小脚色
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162#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:18:54 | 只看该作者

回复 #141 klux 的帖子

我有必要将我以前所有看过的报道一一在这个帖子里面 几分钟内给你呕出来吗?

首先我对你没有什么兴趣 再者你一点都不知道 和你说实在费劲
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163#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:21:32 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:06 发表
大大

不用担心每个飞碟探索者都是浪漫的幻想家

这个称谓挺适合你的,幻想没什么错,我也喜欢幻想,只要不走火入魔就好

比如看看科幻,然后幻想下时光机,零点能量之类的
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164#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:25:30 | 只看该作者

回复 #151 cello 的帖子

第一 你们是权威吗? 你们是什么权威? 你们考核什么? 本身的标准够标准吗?
第二 目前尚缺证据,还在收集中,-------确实
目前没有公布的数据证明活捉了一外星人一UFO


据说某些军方是有数据的 但是不公布 只作本身科研使用 如苏联 如美国 (都是据说 要证实? 将美国51军区来个全方位解剖了才行 要不即使官方公布了还是不够研究 官方不可以造假么? 除非让你亲眼看到摸一下这个也还不行 人类身体触觉 也欺骗人类本身 。。。。)

[ 本帖最后由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:27 编辑 ]
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165#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:27:20 | 只看该作者

回复 #164 coredump 的帖子

大大 表往我身上扣帽子好不好 即使你这个帽子看起来也是比较美

额如果还要和你探究 我本身是不是浪漫的幻想者 本身就太费劲了 一个论题未完又往另一个去

我疲于奔命那
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166#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 14:28:55 | 只看该作者
科幻额不看了 看着辛苦那么厚的故事 你直接说开头结尾不就完了么

科幻不看 爱情小说也不看 历史故事书有点兴趣
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167#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:40:39 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:04 发表
和 你们搞人文的谈得比较头疼。。。。


哈哈,你倒是像国内搞人文的
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168#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:41:06 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:25 发表
第一 你们是权威吗? 你们是什么权威? 你们考核什么? 本身的标准够标准吗?
第二 目前尚缺证据,还在收集中,-------确实
目前没有公布的数据证明活捉了一外星人一UFO


据说某些军方是有数据的 但是不公布  ...

cello质疑在UFO这个问题上是否可以用双重标准,那么你的质疑就是为什么不能双重标准,对吗?呵呵
也就是可以不在乎矛盾的,对吗?

你太有意思了
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169#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:42:14 | 只看该作者
原帖由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 13:18 发表
我有必要将我以前所有看过的报道一一在这个帖子里面 几分钟内给你呕出来吗?

首先我对你没有什么兴趣 再者你一点都不知道 和你说实在费劲


当然啦,你不感兴趣你可以不说,但就免不了被拍了
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170#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:42:53 | 只看该作者
原帖由 coredump 于 26-5-2009 13:41 发表

cello质疑在UFO这个问题上是否可以用双重标准,那么你的质疑就是为什么不能双重标准,对吗?呵呵
也就是可以不在乎矛盾的,对吗?

你太有意思了


马粪兄。。。我觉得越来越讲不清了
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171#
发表于 26-5-2009 14:52:36 | 只看该作者
原帖由 diegolin 于 13-4-2009 20:09 发表
第一个登上月球的人,最近承认登月时候见到UFO和外星人。
现在说法是月球背地那一面都是外星人矿场和基地,外星人使用了手段,月球才会有一面永久背地。

那么,按照这样说法,美俄是常年和外星人打交道的,没有外 ...


月球背面永远背对地球这个完全符合牛顿力学的。要是不永远背对地球,那反而是外星人或者上帝的手段了。
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172#
发表于 26-5-2009 15:02:51 | 只看该作者
原帖由 eguan88 于 25-5-2009 08:46 发表
研究UFO的器材都准备好了,有兴趣到无光害的地方开光!



                               
登录/注册后可看大图


厉害
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173#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 19:50:10 | 只看该作者

回复 #171 klux 的帖子

你如果有兴趣就去找一些报道来说吧
现在很多片子 例如DISCOVER 探索于发现 等等。。。。

都很有意思的

有报道过很大面积的目击事件 不下千人 等等等等。。。。

还很多军方也出面研究的 最终也无法解释的 确实归咎为UFO的

[ 本帖最后由 jessi 于 26-5-2009 23:00 编辑 ]
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174#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 19:51:48 | 只看该作者
压根就没有人声称本身的理论多么完毕
是你们有臆想我们已经以为自己很完备了

然后不断往一些我们不关注的理论上说文章  

我对你们权威一点兴趣都没有椰。。。。
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175#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 19:54:32 | 只看该作者
不知道你们到底拍什么砖呢 ~~~~
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176#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 19:56:03 | 只看该作者

回复 #174 肥肠油饼 的帖子

肯定是据说 据报道 据目击

要是现在捉到一只外星人 一只UFO 恐怕人类历史要改写了

远着呢 大家悠着点
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177#
发表于 26-5-2009 20:27:11 | 只看该作者
果然热了
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178#
 楼主| 发表于 26-5-2009 23:58:17 | 只看该作者

回复 #149 cello 的帖子

你说的这些逻辑都具备了 比你能想像的更完善


如果将还有没作出结论的研究怀疑为毫无依据的瞎闹

那就有点太权威了
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179#
 楼主| 发表于 27-5-2009 00:01:16 | 只看该作者
大家毫无道理得怀疑这个陌生领域为瞎闹 有点莫名其妙
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180#
 楼主| 发表于 27-5-2009 00:15:39 | 只看该作者
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