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[职业发展] 论为什么会这样很难获得澳大利亚/新西兰工作

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1#
发表于 20-10-2015 18:30:42 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式

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Too many have expressed or experienced the difficulty of finding a white-collar job in AU/NZ, I'm no exception. Here, I wish to talk about some analyses on the root cause of that.

Too plain jobs, not too few:

I've heard numerous complains like, typically, "so few chances here". Is that really true? Just think how many C/C++ positions you can found in Australia compared with how many IC designers in Shanghai( with almost the same population as Australia).There's no doubt, much more such opportunities in the former case. The fundamental reason is the lack of really technical positions. Take myself for example, as software engineer working in embedded electronics, could hardly find any suitable roles in the market. The typical job description for so-called "embedded software engineer" is like:

*C/C++ programming
*OOP concpt
*shell script
*Know TCP/IP/UDP app programming
That's all, if without extra requirements like know Java, SQL, Javascript, C# (shit~~)

Is that really the "embedded software engineer", definitely not, it's indeed the application programmer on a ready ARM9 device, which doesn't need you to do anymore than programming on PC, except each time you have to download or burn the built image into that device, which is defined as "embedded software".

Knowing how many people on earth know C/C++? Then think about how to present your unique competitiveness over others? I've no idea, except memorizing all the C/C++ syntax(I did encounter such interviewer in NZ), to prove that you know C/C++ "better than others"? Frankly I never did C++ development before coming to NZ, I should say I was luck to get my current job as I pretended that I knew well C++/QT/Boost...

A horizontal job market rather than vertical
This distinct experience made me rethink my history of success or failure, which I hardly noted before (I would have never thought about it until death if not migrating to NZ). One explanation I can give is,

The more special skills the job requires the easier you can get the job,

which sounds a bit contrary to our common sense so far, right? It is true. When you attend a interview on a Bluetooth development role in an IC designer, you are not competing with millions of people in Shanghai, but just very few, given how many out of 10 millions have such knowledge and experience. That's the reason I didn't feel getting a technically suitable job very hard, in such a fiercely competing market. Or think about my American classmate graduated on a phD degree in battery technology, how many in the US would compete with him for a position in certain company? Those jobs are in the top level of the pyramid, which means pretty few people would apply for.

The situation in AU/NZ however is exact opposite, job seekers are not vertically divided based various technical levels. Rather, thousands of them are keen on one position. I never expected that I would need to get a position that numerous graduates do, while no way for me to show I'm stronger than others (who doesn't know C/C++/socket programming?). The interview questions asked here were never used in my formal companies (when I was an interviewer, I would feel I'm a fool if asking those to job seekers, or the humiliation to our team), as it sounded too non-technical.

So, it's the first time to experience what Chinese described as "thousands of horses crossing one bridge"!

To an extreme case, if you apply for, say, government office workers. Surely everyone knows that that's not something only expert can do. But just imagine how many are applying? The guy I know working in NZ tax bureau tends to be modest, "unlike you skilled professional, my job is what anybody can do". The fact behind this is, how hard you know I can get it after beating native English-speaking white people/maori people?

What are the strong points of that then, well, though not sure, it would be no more than something like, communication skills, personal attractiveness, whatever, definitely not that technical people like me are good at.

Besides, one thing I can't understand is given the reality, both AU and NZ immigration office still define the IT jobs as a "shortage"? Almost no technical jobs in the market that nobody can do, instead, IT employers are constantly busy selecting one from hundreds of applicants. Removing the jobs like web programming from shortage list seems to be brilliant.
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2#
发表于 20-10-2015 19:57:06 | 只看该作者
我随便搜索了下新加坡的关于bsp的工作
http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/en/j ... 12&res-search=1

发现这个工作应该属于bsp,http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/en/job/4887894?fr=21&src=12

但工资也只不过在6000-7000 sgd/month,我感觉bsp并非你在其他的帖子里所说神乎其神,只不过是普通的工程师的工作而已
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3#
 楼主| 发表于 20-10-2015 20:36:55 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 20-10-2015 19:57
我随便搜索了下新加坡的关于bsp的工作
http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/en/job-search/job-vacancy.php?key=b ...

Beware this is a junior role, and Realtek a Taiwanese firm, generally pay less than Euro/American counterparts.

Did I say I dream of the job in IC designer just for money? If I love money I should follow the mainstream in NZ: property investment. So many of jobless earn more I do.

I never thought of income when I did BSP development (whatever the employer offered), and it was always higher than most app programmers.

Even if I were paid the same as a app programmer in a company I still prefer embedded dev.
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4#
 楼主| 发表于 20-10-2015 20:39:45 | 只看该作者
In addition, most Taiwanese big firms like Realtek offer stock to their employees, which means the actual income would be higher, especially when the business goes well.
That's really a good strategy to consolidate the sense of teamwork.
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5#
 楼主| 发表于 20-10-2015 20:42:52 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 ScientificAmeri 于 20-10-2015 20:44 编辑

Realtek is a well-known firm on networking IC, I guess your PC's motherboard probably is equipped with their Ethernet chip.
I'd like to work there even if the pay is not too much, the real problem is they won't hire me.
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6#
 楼主| 发表于 20-10-2015 20:45:36 | 只看该作者
Being in NZ, I even can't dream of working in that sort of firm. Do I have space to argue about the salary then.
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7#
发表于 21-10-2015 07:47:22 | 只看该作者
看不下去啦

楼主英文不地道,特能瞎白乎

没事儿逮一个鬼子就跟y侃啊

英文要copy的,中式逻辑很惨的哇
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8#
发表于 21-10-2015 07:53:52 | 只看该作者
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9#
发表于 21-10-2015 08:07:57 | 只看该作者
打中文吧

有利于思想的表达

码工普遍英文不好,逻辑再不好,就踏马的彻底完蛋啦

情商就先别提啦
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10#
发表于 21-10-2015 12:30:31 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 DDD888 于 21-10-2015 13:28 编辑

其实楼主不要小看写网站的,没有金刚钻,谁敢揽瓷器活啊?你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下面的需求给个实现方案

新西蓝移民局每年给中国抽奖允许一定数量的人低于大概三十岁到新西兰来度假打工一年,因为热门每年的那一天都把新西蓝移民局的网站给弄了崩溃,如果给你一笔钱,请你去设计,你需要花多少钱设计整个框架可以解决这个问题啊?
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11#
发表于 21-10-2015 13:05:56 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 20-10-2015 19:57
我随便搜索了下新加坡的关于bsp的工作
http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/en/job-search/job-vacancy.php?key=b ...

这工作只要求3年经验,要是能给到6k一个月不低了,一年能近10万,所得税可以忽略不计
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12#
发表于 21-10-2015 13:06:55 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 21-10-2015 12:30
其实楼主不要小看写网站的,没有金刚钻,谁感揽瓷器活啊?你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下 ...

是啊,其实没有绝对的高低之分,只是熟悉的领域不同啊……

面对的是完全不同的问题
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13#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:28:17 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 20-10-2015 19:57
我随便搜索了下新加坡的关于bsp的工作
http://www.jobstreet.com.sg/en/job-search/job-vacancy.php?key=b ...

A good search engine, I'll keep an eye...
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14#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:40:02 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 21-10-2015 12:30
其实楼主不要小看写网站的,没有金刚钻,谁敢揽瓷器活啊?你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下 ...

I didn't say I look down upon web dev, just toooooo many candidate in this market~~~

"你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下面的需求给个实现方案"

Even NASA's rocket engineer or my phD classmate can't do that, it's like, a plumber asks a scientist, can you do my job?

After all, how many do you think are really working on technical issues on website, instead of creating UI elements repeatedly.

My classmate may not know what App programming is, but I'm doing App here everyday. How can I evaluate a career if I never experienced. Before coming to NZ I just knew that app programmers generally earn less and prone to overtime, but now I'm an App programmer.
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15#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:41:34 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 21-10-2015 12:30
其实楼主不要小看写网站的,没有金刚钻,谁敢揽瓷器活啊?你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下 ...

The first task I did in a mobile App firm, is to change the resource files to another set of design...
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16#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:44:43 | 只看该作者
DDD888 发表于 21-10-2015 12:30
其实楼主不要小看写网站的,没有金刚钻,谁敢揽瓷器活啊?你自认为是搞科研的,你也不见得可以给出一个对下 ...

About this issue, I talked with web programmers when I was in the first company about concurrency issue, while most of them (several years experience) says that they never did/though of that when creating web, which surprised me.

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17#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:55:23 | 只看该作者
wangbo 发表于 21-10-2015 13:06
是啊,其实没有绝对的高低之分,只是熟悉的领域不同啊……

面对的是完全不同的问题

It's already pretty clear, one dealing with microcontrollers/OS kernels , while another on the business logic for end-users. Which one sounds more scientific?

In terms of the server reliability, that's about the server infra, nothing to do with web programmers. You can ask in firms like Amazon, Alibaba, who are account for those technical roles: I knew one guy in Alibaba(doing Linux kernel level dev), who used to do BSP in Marvell. According to him, the server side development has nothing to do with web programming, all the high-pay technical positions there are web programming unrelated, "Web programmers get the lowest wage in my company" he says.

The essence is business logic must run beyond existing infra that has been created by R&D people. Don't assume firms like Amazon/Alibaba run purely with web programmers.
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18#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 17:58:57 | 只看该作者
zy79 发表于 21-10-2015 13:05
这工作只要求3年经验,要是能给到6k一个月不低了,一年能近10万,所得税可以忽略不计

The key point is, once working in Realtek, you will be more likely to enter Qualcomm/NVIDIA/Marvell several years later. You can't get relevant experience without working in an IC firm. It's a pretty good chance for junior candidates.
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19#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 18:19:39 | 只看该作者
Actually Realtek is not necessarily weaker in terms of profitability, see the following data from wikipedia:

Qualcomm:
Revenue         US$ 26.49 billion (2014)
Number of employees  31,000 (2014)

Realtek:
Revenue         $1,029 million (2014)
Number of employees 2,500 (2015)
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20#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 18:39:32 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 ScientificAmeri 于 21-10-2015 19:03 编辑
dcxg 发表于 21-10-2015 08:07
打中文吧

有利于思想的表达


There are just two languages in which microchip specifications are documented as I know: English and Japanese; Korean/European/Taiwanese firms write in English alone.

That's already convincing enough for a scientific person to abandon Mandarin, a barbaric language originates from Mongolian colonists and later imposed by the communist regime, which is not my mother tongue either. None of my ancestors spoke Mandarin, my grandparents couldn't understand Mandarin TV programs but just Shanghainese dramas. Similarly It's already hotly debated in Singapore when the authority introduced the so called "mother tongue education" while locals argues that it's a foreign language instead.

Educated Indian people from different parts speak the International standard when it comes to workplace. As a linguistic victim I'd been forced to use a secondary language for decades. There no any force privileging it in the free world.
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21#
发表于 21-10-2015 18:46:39 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 21-10-2015 17:58
The key point is, once working in Realtek, you will be more likely to enter Qualcomm/NVIDIA/Marvel ...

IC公司里不同的工作差别还是挺大的,而且你列的这几个高通很难进,marvell都在往外跑没人愿意去
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22#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 18:55:51 | 只看该作者
zy79 发表于 21-10-2015 18:46
IC公司里不同的工作差别还是挺大的,而且你列的这几个高通很难进,marvell都在往外跑没人愿意去

Partly because Marvell's owners are Chinese, Marvell already moved its R&D HQ to Shanghai.

However in terms of technical perspective I don't think working in Marvell is so bad as you said.

"marvell都在往外跑没人愿意去" That's obviously exaggerated.  In fact Shanghai Qualcomm doesn't do IC design while such roles exist in Marvell.
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23#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 18:59:00 | 只看该作者
zy79 发表于 21-10-2015 18:46
IC公司里不同的工作差别还是挺大的,而且你列的这几个高通很难进,marvell都在往外跑没人愿意去

You used to work in Marvell? Shortly before I left Shanghai they were just recruiting FAEs.
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24#
发表于 21-10-2015 19:44:56 | 只看该作者
装13的货
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25#
发表于 21-10-2015 19:49:39 | 只看该作者
Unlike the op, I guess most of people in this thread don't know or read Scientific American.

I met few Chinese cooks living in Melbourne last weekend, obviously they're happier than you guys in high tech industries - web development for them are definitely high tech.

I have the magazine subscription though.
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26#
发表于 21-10-2015 19:56:45 | 只看该作者
ScientificAmeri 发表于 21-10-2015 18:59
You used to work in Marvell? Shortly before I left Shanghai they were just recruiting FAEs.

最近没看新闻吧,marvell国内都快裁光了
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27#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 19:59:15 | 只看该作者
nisejob 发表于 21-10-2015 19:49
Unlike the op, I guess most of people in this thread don't know or read Scientific American.

I me ...

That's undoubtedly a sort of "happiness" but not in the American way, as a result, Australian turns out to be the paradise of hard labors.

Another thinking in my mind is, can you live without whom?
What would the world look like without US/UK or just Australia? The modern civilization in the end was established upon science/technology, not hard labors.

I never bought or used any product made/invented in Australia and it doesn't affect my daily life at all.
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28#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 20:13:02 | 只看该作者
zy79 发表于 21-10-2015 19:56
最近没看新闻吧,marvell国内都快裁光了

I hardly read Chinese news, it's pretty rare so many fired in China, normally for multinational firms the primary lay-off target would be in the US HQ.
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29#
 楼主| 发表于 21-10-2015 20:19:16 | 只看该作者
"手机芯片业最初由美国公司占据绝对主导,但是随着联发科以及海思、展讯等中国芯片厂商崛起,美国芯片厂商开始走下坡路,德州仪器、飞思卡尔、英伟达、博通等美国芯片巨头都出售或放弃了手机芯片业务,只剩下龙头厂商高通,以及举棋不定的英特尔。展望未来,手机芯片业务必将呈现寡头式垄断局面,Marvell手机芯片业务尽管因为贪心,最终砸手里了,但壮士断腕,不失为明智之举。"

Shit, 联发科 is a Chinese firm? What a kind of "culture"~~
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30#
发表于 21-10-2015 21:06:13 | 只看该作者
nisejob 发表于 21-10-2015 19:49
Unlike the op, I guess most of people in this thread don't know or read Scientific American.

I me ...

我蛋疼去搜了一下,想不到这杂志竟然有impact factor,虽然只有1.0
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