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[News] Let's talk about Kavanaugh and modern feminism

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发表于 5-10-2018 08:45:05 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 14:22 编辑

This is interesting
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发表于 5-10-2018 13:53:07 | 显示全部楼层
I was just thinking about this topic this morning!

To start with, allow me to paste an interesting article here first
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发表于 5-10-2018 13:56:57 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 5-10-2018 13:00 编辑

                                                                                                    The Devil’s Triangle
                                                          In the Kavanaugh hearing, American partisanship reached a point of no return

Plane passengers watched their headrest TVs and cried. The phones on Wall Street went unanswered for a time. In coffee shops and bars and in their homes, Americans united to watch what they knew would be a piece of history, live and televised. The United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary hearing heard testimony from two people: Brett Kavanaugh, a federal judge nominated to the Supreme Court, and Dr Christine Blasey Ford, a psychology professor who said that Kavanaugh had sexually assaulted her 36 years ago, when they were both in high school. The testimony lasted all day, and by the end of the hearing, it was ominously clear that the outcome, whatever it would be, would be unacceptable to half the country.
Very few social movements have created such rapid cultural change as the #MeToo campaign to call out sexual assault. A CNN headline claimed that “Christine Blasey Ford finds herself at the center of America’s #MeToo reckoning”, and while the movement might have spurred on the allegations themselves, the investigative mechanisms to hear them have not caught up. There might be no good judicial or executive body yet in existence to sensitively determine the truth of a historical sexual assault, but it’s hard to think of one less well suited than the committee, which, despite its name, is a near-guaranteed venue for travesties of justice.
The 11 Republicans on it are exclusively white men (in fact, a female Republican has never served on it), and the only minority represented was Mormons. The unsatisfactory procedural compromise Republicans reached with their 10 Democratic colleagues created a Frankenstein: the prosecutor from court proceedings – but applied solely to the plaintiff – sewn to grandstand interruptions, and ghoulish efforts at both admonishment and commiseration, all sectioned into five-minute blocks. The chairman, Senator Chuck Grassley, assiduously watched the clock. He tried to project concern for Ford, but what seeped through was his concern for the confirmation vote on Friday.
Grassley’s demeanour was part of a wider effort at Republican restraint and window-dressing, a kernel of self-awareness that 11 sour-faced old men interrogating a crying accuser might look sexist (this attempt at best behaviour still cracked – Senator Orrin Hatch told reporters that Ford was an “attractive witness”, and when asked to elaborate, said “she’s pleasing”.) The avuncular effort was almost worse than outright chauvinism, a festival of concern-trolling conducted through an appointed female proxy, an Arizona prosecutor called Rachel Mitchell. Mitchell explored the uncomfortable tactic of trying to console and discredit Ford at the same time.
Ford was so forthright and credible that no one dared question that she had been assaulted. Instead, the questioning was caltropped with a pernicious idea: it was a case of mistaken identity. This balloon had been floated already, and had not gone well on its maiden voyage. Ed Whelan, a former deputy assistant attorney general during the George W. Bush years, had claimed on Twitter that another man was responsible, proffered floor plans as evidence, implicated someone innocent, and then apologised and prepared himself for a lawsuit. But now the Mystery Man theory was back, and on social media conservative commentators suddenly embraced a century’s worth of defence lawyer ambit claims. Eyewitnesses make mistakes. The human memory is fallible. Perhaps that’s why we never learn anything.
Ford’s expertise meant that she was able to speak to the brain chemistry on memory herself, and the sole eyewitness, a former frat-boy called Mark Judge, was holed up in hiding in a beach house in Delaware. Why he was not compelled to give testimony was never satisfactorily explained. Instead, Mitchell cycled through gentle insinuative queries, which never quite became lines of questioning. Who had paid for the polygraph? Was it true she was afraid of flying? The White House was said to be displeased with these ambits, but the fix was already in. President Trump began calling senators mid-testimony, firming up their votes, growing impatient with the show trial’s lack of finale. Scrutiny was applied to Republican moderates, especially Susan Collins, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski and Ben Sasse, who could each end the nomination with a vote, but had not stopped anything significant so far.
There was a lot of talk about the burden of proof. Should it be beyond reasonable doubt? A preponderance of evidence? Clear and convincing evidence? The trouble with a pseudo-court is that no one knows the process. But everyone knew the Rule: the man usually wins, especially if they’re a man like Brett Kavanaugh. The Clarence Thomas hearing in 1991 had already put a credibly accused sexual harasser on the court (two of the members of the current committee – Grassley and Hatch – had themselves voted for Thomas). Kavanaugh himself had assisted in the cross-examination of Bill Clinton, and was especially keen that counsel ask the president if he had ejaculated in Monica Lewinsky’s mouth. But the true low watermark was set, as always, by Donald Trump.
Was the committee considering accusations of 20 sexual assaults? Had the accused confessed to them on tape? Whatever came out, GOP base voters had already decided it could be lived with, or even embraced. An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll found that 54% of Republicans believed Kavanaugh should be confirmed to the Supreme Court even if Ford’s allegation of sexual assault was found to be true. When Kavanaugh began his statement, sometimes crying, sometimes yelling, so angry the pre-prepared pages snapped when he turned them, he was defending not just himself, but a whole system of entitlement and immunity that had already been found culpable – and survived. “Judge Kavanaugh showed America exactly why I nominated him,” Trump tweeted afterwards. Too right.
Every Republican senator began their remarks by apologising to Kavanaugh, a perverse display of what the Australian philosopher Kate Manne calls “himpathy”. Of course Republican senators acted in bad faith and grandstanded – that’s the job – but the wider trends in the conservative movement were less expected. There had been centre-right ambivalence about Kavanaugh – the Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell had warned Trump against his nomination – but, counter-intuitively, that vacillation disappeared in the face of the accusations. It was the moment many “Never Trump” conservatives came home. The former RedState writer Erick Erickson, driven into the wilderness after a crisis of faith about Trump’s character, tweeted in Kavanaugh’s favour more than 250 times in a 24-hour period.
They appealed to psychology, graphology and sometimes theology to persuade themselves, but all the evidence they really needed was an “honourable” career-conservative legal eagle under attack. This was too far. Senator Lindsey Graham suggested that in the future Republicans might be forced to make false allegations against Democratic nominees to even the score. It was described as the end of the line for illusions of media bias, of respect for the rule of law, of the last pretence of unbiased judicial nominations and nominees. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, it could also be the end of abortion in America, and given his track record, the conclusion of any effort to peacefully reconcile these disunited states.

RICHARD COOKE
Richard Cooke is The Monthly’s US Correspondent and Contributing Editor. He is also The Saturday Paper’s sports editor.


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发表于 5-10-2018 13:59:02 | 显示全部楼层
I am so interested to be a keen witness and see how low the politics could go in both national and global stage
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 楼主| 发表于 5-10-2018 15:26:34 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 15:46 编辑


Oh dear, this is tooooo long for Friday afternoon when my brain has already gone slack waiting for alcohol to kick in.

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 楼主| 发表于 5-10-2018 15:32:05 | 显示全部楼层
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly.
Hope no woman would pop out from nowhere and accuse me for that. One is automatically guilty if the accuser is a woman. That feels

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发表于 5-10-2018 18:11:05 | 显示全部楼层
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in your opinion?

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 楼主| 发表于 5-10-2018 19:15:08 | 显示全部楼层
yearshappy 发表于 5-10-2018 17:11
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in y ...

We are on
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发表于 5-10-2018 21:00:38 | 显示全部楼层
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 14:32
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly{ ...

What he did was years ago while they were both in high school! I tend to believe he wasn't wrongly accused, lots of things could happen in high school, that's just how it was!

Most of high school kids were quite foolish, especially when they maybe just turn 18 and regarded legal to drink. They were still struggling finding their identities, not quite sure what their accountability should be as a social individual. And then, all of a sudden, they were considered adults in the coming-of-age ceremony. Of course, the young people would be at loss and get confused!

Luckily, many mistakes they have made in high school are repairable! But, certain serious ones would be one day coming back haunting them!

In Kavanaugh's case, sexual assault, would be one of the mistakes he would have to be held accountable for, no matter how long the time has gone by! As an attacker, he might choose not to remember what he did (or he chose to shut that out of his memory, so he didn't have to deal with it, because it was too serious), but as a victim, she would never be able to come to terms with what had been done to her, her ego, her confidence and her faith in men.

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发表于 5-10-2018 21:05:30 | 显示全部楼层
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 14:32
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly{ ...

True or not, the approach Kavanaugh has taken to deal with the accusation against him is far more from what a future supreme court judge should have taken. From his capability to handle crisis alone, I dare to say he is not cut out for this position.

But, whatever Mr Trump decides won't surprise me!

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发表于 5-10-2018 21:53:53 | 显示全部楼层
#MeToo campaign, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.#MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag social media in an attempt to tackle the prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.

Following the campaign, there is a policy put in place to empower women who fell victims to sexual harassment or assault to speak up, to report it. Police will have to launch an investigation into the allegation no matter how long ago it happened.

However, Kavanaugh's sexual assault accusation was kidnapped and magnified by democratic party. They made what was supposed to be a local court hearing case into a national one, and the democrats desperately need to nip it in the bud for Trump nominated, non-trustworthy candidate to sit in the supreme court to steer America's judiciary future.

Because, the judge in supreme court is a permanent position and this judge is supposed to make the toughest calls when the nation is divided by certain issues. Kavanaugh is a republican and close friend of Trump's. It would be a nightmare for the democrats if Kavanaugh is successfully taking the chair in supreme court and steer America's judiciary wheel.

So, in my opinion, it is not much about #MeToo campaign or feminism!

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 楼主| 发表于 5-10-2018 23:24:54 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 5-10-2018 20:00
What he did was years ago while they were both in high school! I tend to believe he wasn't wrongly ...

Oh darling. It's simply not good enough to say I tend to believe so he must be held accountable for.
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 楼主| 发表于 5-10-2018 23:53:46 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 22:56 编辑
yearshappy 发表于 5-10-2018 17:11
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in y ...


First off we need to draw a clear line between old fashion feminism and the modern feminism. The former one is something I admire. Under that banner people women and men gathered and fought for the equality in every aspect for women. And their goal was well achieved, well at least in the West

The latter one is only feminism in name. It's part of the entire far left social 'justice' movement which pushes for its extreme culture revolutionary ideology. All the sub movement in this pretty much share the same basic trait. They put people in different groups and simplify them as collective victims and collective oppressors/sinners. In modern feminism all women are victims. Women having all the same rights as men by law means nothing. You must believe women are still being oppressed, reduced. All men especially straight white men are sinners. They are the most despicable creatures.

The modern feminists claim they fight for gender equality but what they always ask for is women's privilege over men (e.g. Kavanaugh's case. The accuser being a women so we have to trust what she said? Women not only being over men but over rule of law?). They claim they fight for women's dignity while insulting men and reducing men to their gender and skin colour only has become a common practice and well justified (OZ senator Sarah Hanson Young addressed on TV for a sexual assault case 'Men act like morons and pigs'). They put some female individuals' misfortunes together and exaggerate them by 100 times and turn it into collectively oppressed victimhood so they can gather more women under their man-hating banner. They fabricated ridiculous concepts out of thin air like rape culture, 1/3 of the women were raped, and repeat them over and over like that will make it true.

If you don't agree with them. Congratulations! You are officially a bigot.

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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 10:14:14 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 5-10-2018 20:53
#MeToo campaign, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.#MeToo spread virally in ...

It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe women' slogans are all over the place. It's another case that 'feminists' use smearing tactics to strengthen female 'victimhood', to incite man hating sentiment.

For those extreme SJW's their agenda is above all. Even the rule of law must give way. A man is automatically guilty unless proved innocent? What kind of BS is that! And even the man is proved to be innocent by FBI it's still not good for them.
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发表于 6-10-2018 10:17:50 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 09:34 编辑
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 22:24
Oh darling. It's simply not good enough to say I tend to believe so he must be held accountable fo ...


Hahaha, exactly!

The reason I didn't say he is to be held accountable for what he was accused of is that principle in the judicial system: A person is innocent before proved guilty!

But, I don't think this is about Kavanaugh is guilty or not, it is about whether he will be deemed qualified to steel America's judicial wheel and make the toughest calls for years to come, while he should have so many merits under his belt: Integrity, honesty, respect, capabilities to handle tough situation with grace, humbleness, modesty, intelligence. From how he presented himself in the judicial committee hearing, he proved himself none of those but dishonesty, disrespect, ignorance, childishness and dismissing of how women in that position feel.

By the way, bro! He was accused of the first sexual misconduct against Christine while under influence of alcohol. Back then, he was only 17 and Christine was 15, why didn't his think tank take on the strategy defending the allegation against him by saying: Christine, you are apparently lying on the ground alone that any 17 years old kid was not allowed to drink yet!

Bingo! Did Kavanaugh start drinking illegally at age of 17? What was going on then?

On top of this allegation, Kavanaugh has two more similar ones against him that claimed to happened to other two women while he attended college! And we can absolutely foresee what his reactions to these allegations are supposed to be!

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发表于 6-10-2018 10:30:42 | 显示全部楼层
Anyhoo, if a guy who thought it is ok to grab women's (this woman is not related) pussy can take US president's office and guide America's national path, mislead international affairs' direction, then, I don't see why a sexual misconduct accused can't sit on the justice chair to make the toughest calls in maintaining the law in a national scale!

Guess, with Trump in the top office, Democrats only have to endure the nightmare for 4 years or another 4 more. But, their worst nightmare will come true if Kavanaugh's nomination for the supreme court judge is confirmed. Oh, brother, talking about the permanent and reoccurring nightmares with no way out for Democrats!
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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 10:39:31 | 显示全部楼层
' I'd rather be grabbed by the p***y than have a p***y for president.'
----- Katie Hopkins
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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 10:52:19 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 09:17
Hahaha, exactly!

The reason I didn't say he is to be held accountable for what he was accuse ...

Honey, to disqualify a 53 yrs old man for the supreme court judge position for drinking at 17, which was 36 yrs ago? No kidding. You gotta come up with something more powerful than that.

And you're right. Giving him a guilty verdict for rape w/o evidence and not voting for him because of doubts are very different things. But what kind of doubt do you have? Is that reasonable doubt? Sorry I don't see any reason in it at all. If such an accusation w/o any coorboration and from a woman already proved to have lied for some of her testimony can drag down a candidate then there isn't a single man can be exempted from being ruined for nothing.
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发表于 6-10-2018 11:07:37 | 显示全部楼层
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 22:53
First off we need to draw a clear line between old fashion feminism and the modern feminism. The ...

I do think that modern feminism is a totally unrelated topic in Kavanaugh's case, but while we are on this subject, I would like to pitch in my perspectives on it!

Yes, Old feminism saw women be franchised in political domain, to speak up their mind in public venues, walk out of house to earn their social status and sense of self-worth and dignity. But, it is not enough for women as a human being just like men are, they sure can accomplish as much as men can if given the equal opportunity and platform. Then, here comes the modern feminist campaign.

This modern campaign has seen women become active in all walks of life once considered impossible: Women are seen in parliament house making themselves heard in a far-and-wide magnitude, women take stage in public venues and stand up for the minority and the vulnerable, women are enlisted in army and police force maintaining social orders, women are empowered to pick up the scalpels operating patients and saving lives, women are seen to hold a chain saw working alongside their male counterparts in logging business...And so on, and so on.

But, one thing women are still battling is violence against them from their male fellow citizens. Sexual misconducts against women can often be heard in working places, public transport, pubs, schools....

In all sexual misconducts accusations, there is a common public outcry predominantly from men that says: Women shouldn't hang out late in the evening anywhere (even in their own house, they could be get sexually or physically assaulted, murdered), walk alone in the dark, or dress up sexy...Or in other word, that saying is hanging around behind this outcry: Whatever happens, you (Women) have that coming to you through your behaviour.

So, the modern feminists counteract that mindset and appeal to the public: It's not women who should change their behavour, that's men who should.

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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 11:15:41 | 显示全部楼层
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mates only? 'Grab by the balls' is always being said but is there a single man whinged about it for feeling offended? Sometimes you're offended only because you want to be.

I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuine any more. Not only men, people talk dirty in bedrooms in locker rooms. That's what people do and there is nothing wrong with it.  What's the point to make a big fuss out of that? On the other hand Bill Clinton got his secretary on her knees offering him an indescribable service in HIS OVAL OFFICE yet still got to be president for years and his wife still became a representative for women's rights? That's so fucked up.
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发表于 6-10-2018 11:24:37 | 显示全部楼层
If we argue that the modern feminism has gone too lefty, then, I can confront this by saying: No, it's not too lefty enough to see off the misogynism inflicted on female in the society, to save many women's lives from their current or former male partner, to stop women from sexually harassed or assaulted by their male counterparts.

Here is the 2017's statistics here in Australia I copied:

1 in 4 women have experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


1 in 5 women have experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment during her lifetime.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.

Bryant, W. & Bricknall, S. (2017). Homicide in Australia 2012-2014: National Homicide Monitoring Program report. Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology. Retrieved from: https://bit.ly/2ozctxh.
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发表于 6-10-2018 11:40:53 | 显示全部楼层
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 09:14
It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe wom ...

Guess it's fair to say that there is a kind inherited hierachy all over the world in which men are proudly sitting atop the social chain by only being a man.

If you are 100% honest and brave enough, you can't deny that you, as a male, have been enjoying the male privilege all through your life, everywhere you go! Even in this modern age, in so many societies, a girl's birth and existence is still considered insignificant! Some girls are even deprived of their living rights before birth or after. So, you can't say that women are playing the victim card. Women feel victimized is because they are victimized, the only thing they can do is raising the public awareness by speaking up and standing up for themselves while their perpetrators don't.
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发表于 6-10-2018 11:53:51 | 显示全部楼层
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 09:14
It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe wom ...

Whenever a sexual misconduct accusation is brought up against a man, especially a powerful, public figure, he doesn't become automatically a guilty man. He and his supporters will instinctively deny the allegation and send out the unsaid message to the victim: Bugger off, you! You only accuse me that because you want to gain the fame, raise to the social top or make a big money out of it by exploiting what might or might not have happened.

Question is: Why women can gain those advantages by accusing men of the sexual misconducts but not in reverse situation? Have we ever seen any cases in which things have turned out to be the other way around?

So, men have the power to deliver all those privileges they claim the women are after! What does this suggest: Male is atop the social chain!
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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 12:21:02 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 11:49 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 10:24
If we argue that the modern feminism has gone too lefty, then, I can confront this by saying: No, it ...


20% women have 'experienced' sexual 'violence'. Wording is everything isn't it? Is hearing of somebody's case also kind of experience? Who can say no? Is spanking sort of violence? If someone who just enjoyed last night insists it is I don't know how to argue with her. Why not just say 20% women experienced rape or attempted rape? Have to keep it ambiguous otherwise it will fuck up.

1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment and only based on survey. Well we have very sophisticated law to deal with sexual harassment. There is nothing to prevent women from filing their complaints. I would rather look into the figures for how many case were filed, processed and men got charged for it other than relying on a survey to tell the true story. Same deal as the sexual violence. How many rape cases filed, how many rapist got verdict. Sorry honey, if there is something more objective in place that everyone can get to investigate by the same standard a survey mean nothing to me. This survey is just another perfect example how badly the hard left social justice movement has infiltrated in every level of the society to manipulate people's mind.

Moreover what is sexual harassment exactly? Who holds the standard? The law or the women by their subjective opinion? Is a man pursuing a woman also regarded as harassment? Likely to be if the women had no interested in that very man. But guess what if one woman hates to be 'harassed' so much nobody will come and 'harass' her. That's also part of the reason Asian girls are so popular nowadays. Not only because they are exotic but also because ON AVERAGE they still like to be pursued.
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发表于 6-10-2018 12:25:08 | 显示全部楼层
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mates only? 'Grab by the balls' is always being said but is there a single man whinged about it for feeling offended? Sometimes you're offended only because you want to be.

What's been said in a locker room with only your mates let out to the public by who? Someone eavesdropped or Trump's mates felt obliged to make the locker-room talk a public access?

I don't think it is a normal talk in a locker-room or bedroom with anyone or anywhere or by any gender that goes "Grab women by their pussy" "Grab men by their balls".

However, if that's from a common male or female (given that is said in private), nobody is gonna take offense out of it. But, if that's said in public, that male or female will be certainly judged or even criticized by their mates. If that's from a public figure (Of course his wife won't put him in an awkward position no matter what has been said in the bedroom to degrade women), then, as long as his disparaging remarks against any group will be publicly scrutinized and judged.

The same rule applies to a female public figure without any exception whatsoever!

By the way, even men themselves express muscular feeling by exploiting their private parts: Show your balls; Where are your balls?

Then, how men can play victims when women said the same thing as men do?

And more, have you ever heard any women express their feminine feeling by exploiting their private parts: Show your ....
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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 12:38:16 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 11:43 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 11:25
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mate ...


Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. Anybody can talk dirty in totally private occasions. That's only people being genuine. My signature says the same thing. If I'm an American I would have zero problem with having a genuine man for president. But to have someone who talks beautifully but behave ugly? Some people haven't had enough politicians like this they still want to have another one. Then it's their rights to vote for that. But no thanks, not for me.

Well if women want to be proud of their p***y, then by all means do it. I will be absolutely supportive. Why not? Everybody comes from there. You don't think it's existing? Go check #slut walk. P***y is all over the place.
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发表于 6-10-2018 12:53:10 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 13:55 编辑

I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuine any more. Not only men, people talk dirty in bedrooms in locker rooms. That's what people do and there is nothing wrong with it.  What's the point to make a big fuss out of that? On the other hand Bill Clinton got his secretary on her knees offering him an indescribable service in HIS OVAL OFFICE yet still got to be president for years and his wife still became a representative for women's rights? That's so fucked up.

Excellent argument by throwing Bill Clinton's case in the mix, mate!

When he was questioned about the allegation against him (by the way, the allegation was brought up by the republicans rather than the victim herself), I was over there in the States. I saw almost on every TV channel, there were Talk Show presenters, Comedians, TV show audience making him the butt of all jokes! Before his sexual misconduct was proved true, he automatically denied the allegation against him in public, and lied to the investigators.

I, myself, at that time, thought it would be justified to get him impeached and kicked out of the Oval Office. While Hillary Clinton chose to stay with him and rally behind him, it took me hundreds of questions to no avail figuring out her intention and life goal. Especially, she, as a first lady, was supposed to be representing all women in America and showing her stance on what the modern feminism stands for!

But, I guess she had so many untold hopelessness and frustration to make the decision that she did, even she had the enormous doubts about what the future holds for her family and marriage, she chose the democrat party, she rose above the adversities and remained focused on her party's future rather than her own.

When it comes Hilary representing American women's rights, I personally don't hold any sympathy for her when her qualification and eligibility were questioned for standing on the frontier of feminism's campaign!

Bravo, bro, for bringing up this instance!  

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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 13:05:05 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 10:40
Guess it's fair to say that there is a kind inherited hierachy all over the world in which men are ...

I'm honest I'm brave enough to be political incorrect to say male privilege is a bloody myth in Western society. Let's not mix China or India into this. Let's not claim women are oppressed in the West because what's happening in other countries. That's nonsense.

And those modern feminists in the west, I only have seen them waging war against men in the West. When women from other culture got really victimized and need somebody to stand up for them those outspoken 'feminists' are nowhere to be found because they have to be political correct to respect other culture.
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 楼主| 发表于 6-10-2018 13:46:37 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 11:53
I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuin ...

I probably hasn't made my point clear. What really bothered me was not Clinton's indescribable service. He is a man and I know men. Sometimes men do that. It's not nice thing but it's something we have to live with. And at the end of the day I don't need a saint to lead the country. I need someone who can get the bloody jobs done. How and where he enjoyed his service and how Hilary dealt with it had nothing to do with his job. Full stop. It bothered me a little that he lied to the public about it. But, hey, aren't we grownup enough to acknowledge politicians lie all the time? On the other hand if Clinton's issue can be waved off what's the point to bother Trump's 'grab by the p***y'? I don't bother at all.

What really bothered me was the hypocrisy and double standard in that election. Seems you don't like either of them then good on you. But we have to face the reality that the majority of Trump haters would die for seeing Hilary to be elected and till today many of them still do. That's just so fucked up.
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发表于 6-10-2018 15:33:48 | 显示全部楼层
20% women have 'experienced' sexual 'violence'. Wording is everything isn't it? Is hearing of somebody's case also kind of experience? Who can say no? Is spanking sort of violence? If someone who just enjoyed last night insists it is I don't know how to argue with her. Why not just say 20% women experienced rape or attempted rape? Have to keep it ambiguous otherwise it will fuck up.

It's not about wording in statistics as per ABS, it's about what a daunting reality women are living with! Of course "hearing someone else's" ordeal doesn't count as a personal experience! Questioning ABS' statistics credibility only shows your assumption that women who participated in the survey have no idea what sexual violence is! Oh, boy, that's gonna be huge debate!

Spanking? Who gives anyone the right to spank anyone else that's equal with the spank-deliver in social identity? And yes, the spanking without consent from the spankee (I made up this word, hahaha) boils down to sexual harassment, no matter who is the spank-deliver and who is the recipient.

Whoever enjoyed last night would keep enjoying many more nights to come with both parties' involvement and expectations. It's consented joy, who would all of a sudden blow off that happiness with no reason at all.

But, in this case, if any party wants to break it up and make it perfectly clear that she/he doesn't want it any more for whatever reason, the other party just chose to turn a deaf ear to that request and still wanted to engage that party into intimate interactions or sexual activities by any means, then, Yes. That is a sexual harassment or violence against the non-consensual party.
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