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[language study] Yping88 and 牧马人 on Australia Day

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发表于 30-9-2018 20:59:47 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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@牧马人

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 12:06:56 | 显示全部楼层
Time to pay the debt I owe to this topic.
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 12:12:31 | 显示全部楼层
Background check first.

I would like to divide this background check to two categories: One was before British's first convict fleet arrival in Australia in 1788 and one afterwards
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 12:36:13 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 4-10-2018 12:51 编辑

Indigenous Australians is a generic name for the native Australians referred as Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders. As general evidence shown in archaeological research that Indigenous people's inhabitant in this vast land was dated as far back as 65,000 years ago.

They were predominantly nomadic or semi-nomadic and lived on hunting and foraging along south-east territory and Murray River depending on the availability of the food resource. In some area along Murray river, there were some permanent settlements and agricultural activities. Their inhabitants were predominantly around the aforementioned territories, but not limited to! Archaeological evidences confirmed that their movements were tracked down in all the states and territories!

Back then, there were about 1 million indigenous people co-inhabited as communities without written language, without common law of course. Everything was passed around and down through word of mouth and story-telling, rules were set up and maintained by tribes and the elders.

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 13:17:35 | 显示全部楼层
Then, in 1770, an English explorer, James Cook, navigated his Royal Navy fleet to east coast Australia (Queensland) and first recorded Europeans' contact with this land.

In 1778, England marked its official colonization in Australia by the arrival of the first convict fleet. Until 1836, the free English settlers had successfully established their settlements all over Australia!

Unlike English's previous colonization practices in North America, no treaty was outlined between the settlers and indigenous people to achieve any agreement on the land titles. (Remember there was no written language existed among Indigenous communities before British's colonization. Here, I should say illiterate state is by all means terrified)
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 13:35:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 4-10-2018 15:47 编辑

Because there were many men on the first fleet disease-stricken, they carried the diseases to their newly settled land such as Measles, Tuberculosis and Smallpox, against which Indigenous people had no immunity. Then, the epidemics broke out, lots of Indigenous people were killed.

(Wonder how many free settlers succumbed to these diseases if they were not immunized enough to carry the diseases. This bears the striking resemblance on how most Native Americans were killed when the British pilgrims first landed on North America's continent in 1620. Over 100 years later, the great Britain caused exactly the same human disaster even when they knew better. What is your take on this? @牧马人)
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 14:31:42 | 显示全部楼层
Fast forward to early 1900, the indigenous population was estimated to have had declined to about 93,000, on the other hand, European population had grown to 3.7 million since the first convict fleet arrived in 1788.

Back then, Indigenous people were deemed by European settlers too low in social to be acknowledged to own the right over the land. Commonwealth Franchise Act in 1902 even excluded Indigenous Australians from voting.

The Aboriginal right issues didn't get nationally recognized until 1938, in which, the 150th anniversary to commemorate the British's First arrival was claimed by Indigenous right activists and their supporters as a Day of Mourning, "Invasion Day" or "Survival Day". And protests against Australia Day has never ceased ever since.

The commonwealth legislation remained denying franchising Indigenous people in commonwealth elections until 1962. The landmark referendum in 1967 passed the law by which it ruled the indigenous population be counted in Australian's head count.

(Phew, it was incredibly and unbelievably surprising that it took 178 years for a so-called democratic and highly civilized system as British's came to realize (through long-term protests of Indigenous people and supporters) that Native Australians are actually meant to be granted the same human rights as they are!)
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 14:44:10 | 显示全部楼层
In recent years, there has been far more outcry from Indigenous communities and activists demanding that Australia Day be changed to an alternative one, in order to include all indigenous Australians in the celebration and create a more harmonious national dynamics to feel proud as an Australian!

Ok, folks, you are all warmly welcome to come on board this conversation. Please don't hesitate to share your mind on this issue!

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 14:47:33 | 显示全部楼层
Thanks, @yearshappy

I just feel that I have been credited more than I deserved
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 14:49:41 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 4-10-2018 14:52 编辑

@牧马人 @Serin @yearshappy @5years @MICHELLE07 @指纹 @愚夫 @kevin妈妈 @周星星1832 @mite

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发表于 4-10-2018 14:58:01 | 显示全部楼层
@chubbycat

阅读全文然后一句话概括。。。
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 15:01:23 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 4-10-2018 15:38 编辑

@ubuntuhk @妮南 @语之玫瑰 @春浅 @嘟嘟宝贝
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 15:02:14 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 4-10-2018 15:23:49 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yearshappy 于 4-10-2018 15:28 编辑
yping88 发表于 4-10-2018 13:35
Because there were many men on the first fleet disease-stricken, they carried the diseases to their  ...

The similar cases are, arguably

1) the Spaniards brought smallpox to the Incas;

2) Mongols spread the bubonic plague to the empires of Byzantium and Persia, and the Black Death to the Europe;

3) In the case of Australia, the Indigenous peoples in the centre of the land were less affected whereas the peoples along the coast line had a greater decrease in number as a result of the diseases brought by the early European settlers. The case of Indigenous Tasmanians was even more complex and controversial.

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 15:32:45 | 显示全部楼层
yearshappy 发表于 4-10-2018 15:23
The similar cases are, arguably

1) the Spaniards brought smallpox to the Incas;

Would you mind talking about a little bit more about how Indigenous people were almost wiped out in Tasmania?

Thanks, @yearshappy
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 15:36:31 | 显示全部楼层
To be clear, I am not personally supporting any ideas in particular! Just would like to hear what you all have to say on this matter, so, I can draw the wisdom from you to look at it from different perspectives!
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发表于 4-10-2018 15:48:21 | 显示全部楼层
yping88 发表于 4-10-2018 14:49
@牧马人 @Serin @yearshappy @5years @MICHELLE07 @指纹 @愚夫 @kevin妈妈 @周星星1832 @mite

我英文不好,这么多英文看不懂。

但是虽然不知道咋回事,也一定全力支持yping88

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发表于 4-10-2018 16:20:52 | 显示全部楼层
This topic was discussed in my son's class last year.
Most of his classmate supported that the Australia Day should be cancelled or changed to another day. But my son insisted that it was fine.

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 16:33:16 | 显示全部楼层
语之玫瑰 发表于 4-10-2018 16:20
This topic was discussed in my son's class last year.
Most of his classmate supported that the Aus ...

Good on him, to speak up for what he believes in and be an independent thinker!
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发表于 4-10-2018 17:04:05 | 显示全部楼层
Didn't the Indigenous people have an official day to celebrate/ or memorize that they are Indigenous people?

Instead of arguing for another century, what's the problem if the gov names such a day which would make them well comforted? and probably one more public holiday to the rest unless they are unhappy.

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发表于 4-10-2018 17:13:21 | 显示全部楼层
support yping for no reason

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发表于 4-10-2018 17:31:20 | 显示全部楼层
Thank yping88 for @me and thanks for your topics.

I would like to say “Australia day” has become a  big holiday to us whoever we have joined citizenships or not, we are living in Australia, should respect Australia aboriginal culture and rights.
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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 17:32:29 | 显示全部楼层
MICHELLE07 发表于 4-10-2018 17:13
support yping for no reason

Hahaha, MM

You are biased and wouldn't be considered impartial and selected to sit for jury service if I were to be prosecuted!

Appreciate your unconditional support!

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发表于 4-10-2018 18:23:47 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yearshappy 于 4-10-2018 19:06 编辑
yping88 发表于 4-10-2018 15:32
Would you mind talking about a little bit more about how Indigenous people were almost wiped out i ...

I try
long story short

the historical context

  • between 1817 and 1830, white population experienced a dramatic increase from 2000 to 23500; 1 million sheep occupied the land of Tas
  • whites were in fear of attacks from the blacks
  • conflicts between two sides; death toll 176 whites, 700 blacks
  • the last 200 blacks were placed on Flinders Island only 80 remained by 1835

a history war between two camps
Left (black armband)Conservative (whitle blindfold)
  • the occurance of invasion & genocide
  • the black was in resistance to colonial power, self-defence
  • it's not assimilation but extermination
  • enlightenment assimilation hope, the process of colonisation or civilisation
  • the Left exaggerated the death toll,
  • reject the genocidal intention but acknoledge implication; a failure of assimilation


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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 19:26:12 | 显示全部楼层

Thanks, @yearshappy

The settlement was established in Tasmania in 1803, almost 3 decades after the first convict fleet's arrival. Guess the indigenous people's illiterate state would have evolved to certain point in which the story-telling wouldn't remain in the path of word of mouth.

Then, what really happened to the dramatically declined Indigenous population would get told in an as-matter-of-fact approach.

Just my personal take!
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发表于 4-10-2018 19:38:35 | 显示全部楼层
不是辩论吧 更像讨论 所以不需要支持不支持

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 19:50:31 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yping88 于 5-10-2018 07:23 编辑


Extermination, annihilation... or whatever it may be called, through killing or epidemic outbreak of fatal diseases, made the conflicts over land title and survival so much easier and necessary for the superior party (The ones who were armed with war weapons, who were capable of massacres, who were able to carry the diseases over but were able to survive these diseases). See, who would be making the history what it is!

The claim that epidemic outbreak of certain diseases were held accountable for the indigenous population's significant decline still couldn't sit perfectly right with me.

let's see: In 1620, the first group of pilgrims landed in North America. In a few years following their settlement, thousands of Native Americans disappeared due to the European diseases carried over by the pilgrims, because the American Indians had no immunity to fend off those diseases.

Over 150 years later, the British landed on another continent (Australia) and same story dragged on on Indigenous Australians. How come a so-called civilized nation could still do the same damage to another continent and repeat the same human disaster more than one and half centuries later when they knew different and so much better?

Therefore, I am not totally sold for the epidemic outbreak story!  

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发表于 4-10-2018 20:33:11 | 显示全部楼层
Difficult to catch up

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 楼主| 发表于 4-10-2018 20:55:19 | 显示全部楼层

Take your time!

I got a day off today, so I was completely focused!
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发表于 4-10-2018 23:46:05 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 yearshappy 于 5-10-2018 07:51 编辑
yping88 发表于 4-10-2018 19:26
Thanks, @yearshappy

The settlement was established in Tasmania in 1803, almost 3 decades after ...

You're certainly spot on and you're begging the question, whose history is it?
It's not the history of the Indigenous Tasmanians as till today, we do not know how many of them were at that time. They were considered as 'savages' and they were not worth counting.
What do people often say? History is written by winners!

Yes, very true. Written text is critical when it comes to history. Many greatest ancient texts are still being studied by people worldwide. However, these days objects, paintings, personal diaries, church records, just name a few, all of which can be studied and explored for their significance in history. So history is no longer THE history, the victors' history but histories for many including you, me and everyone else, at least in theory.

And yes again. In my 24#post, I chose the approach in an attempt of being neutral and objective by simply giving out the statistics and factual narratives.   

There were a few years back when I was very much into the poems, the ones that were written by Aborigines themselves. I remember clearly the poems were so touching and since then, I have had a better understanding of them. If you want a close up to them and want to explore the emotional part of them, then their poems are probably a way to go.

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