Amy Chua Is a Wimp
Sometime early last week, a large slice of educated America decided that Amy Chua is a menace to society. Chua, as you probably know, is the Yale professor who has written a bracing critique of what she considers the weak, cuddling American parenting style.Chua didn’t let her own girls go out on play dates or sleepovers. She didn’t let them watch TV or play video games or take part in garbage activities like crafts. Once, one of her daughters came in second to a Korean kid in a math competition, so Chua made the girl do 2,000 math problems a night until she regained her supremacy. Once, her daughters gave her birthday cards of insufficient quality. Chua rejected them and demanded new cards. Once, she threatened to burn all of one of her daughter’s stuffed animals unless she played a piece of music perfectly.
As a result, Chua’s daughters get straight As and have won a series of musical competitions.
In her book, “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother,” Chua delivers a broadside against American parenting even as she mocks herself for her own extreme “Chinese” style. She says American parents lack authority and produce entitled children who aren’t forced to live up to their abilities.
The furious denunciations began flooding my in-box a week ago. Chua plays into America’s fear of national decline. Here’s a Chinese parent working really hard (and, by the way, there are a billion more of her) and her kids are going to crush ours. Furthermore (and this Chua doesn’t appreciate), she is not really rebelling against American-style parenting; she is the logical extension of the prevailing elite practices. She does everything over-pressuring upper-middle-class parents are doing. She’s just hard core.
Her critics echoed the familiar themes. Her kids can’t possibly be happy or truly creative. They’ll grow up skilled and compliant but without the audacity to be great. She’s destroying their love for music. There’s a reason Asian-American women between the ages of 15 and 24 have such high suicide rates.
I have the opposite problem with Chua. I believe she’s coddling her children. She’s protecting them from the most intellectually demanding activities because she doesn’t understand what’s cognitively difficult and what isn’t.
Practicing a piece of music for four hours requires focused attention, but it is nowhere near as cognitively demanding as a sleepover with 14-year-old girls. Managing status rivalries, negotiating group dynamics, understanding social norms, navigating the distinction between self and group — these and other social tests impose cognitive demands that blow away any intense tutoring session or a class at Yale.
Yet mastering these arduous skills is at the very essence of achievement. Most people work in groups. We do this because groups are much more efficient at solving problems than individuals (swimmers are often motivated to have their best times as part of relay teams, not in individual events). Moreover, the performance of a group does not correlate well with the average I.Q. of the group or even with the I.Q.’s of the smartest members.
Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon have found that groups have a high collective intelligence when members of a group are good at reading each others’ emotions — when they take turns speaking, when the inputs from each member are managed fluidly, when they detect each others’ inclinations and strengths.
Participating in a well-functioning group is really hard. It requires the ability to trust people outside your kinship circle, read intonations and moods, understand how the psychological pieces each person brings to the room can and cannot fit together.
This skill set is not taught formally, but it is imparted through arduous experiences. These are exactly the kinds of difficult experiences Chua shelters her children from by making them rush home to hit the homework table.
Chua would do better to see the classroom as a cognitive break from the truly arduous tests of childhood. Where do they learn how to manage people? Where do they learn to construct and manipulate metaphors? Where do they learn to perceive details of a scene the way a hunter reads a landscape? Where do they learn how to detect their own shortcomings? Where do they learn how to put themselves in others’ minds and anticipate others’ reactions?
These and a million other skills are imparted by the informal maturity process and are not developed if formal learning monopolizes a child’s time.
So I’m not against the way Chua pushes her daughters. And I loved her book as a courageous and thought-provoking read. It’s also more supple than her critics let on. I just wish she wasn’t so soft and indulgent. I wish she recognized that in some important ways the school cafeteria is more intellectually demanding than the library. And I hope her daughters grow up to write their own books, and maybe learn the skills to better anticipate how theirs will be received. This is an article by David Brooks of the New York Times. The original article is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=homepage Those parents who think they can use fear or authority to push their kids to the limit had better think twice before taking the plunge...:L
回复 #3 funnybird 的帖子
the sad thing is, they think what they are pushing is the BEST for their children and they believe in it:L回复 #4 pinxinge 的帖子
it becomes a culture thing and I can't see much hope of a quick improvement in current China.回复 #6 lisa2008 的帖子
I don't see why you two have to be so pessimistic. I mean, a lot of people do it because they do not know any better. Put it in another way, theyare NOT as enlightened as the parents in the West. To change the situation, we must take the initiative ourselves as a start. People will see the light at the end of the tunnel if you set a good example. I know, I know, easier said than done. Chinese parenting still has a long way to go! But if we can bring up our children in their own interests(not ours!), the children themselves would be able to demonstrate what is best in the end... This is such a taxing topic we can never, ever figure out an answer to. I am not sure if the teenagers are old enough to sort out what is the best for their future. I am not sure either if I impose on my daughter what I believe is the best for her, what damage or good that will do for her. So, I just give up pushing her and let what really resides in her take over.Yeah, I got admit that I feel powerless when I am uncertain about what my daughter will turn out to be. And also, I would send out a message to the general public: Why we are trying that hard to get our children here?
[ 本帖最后由 yping88 于 20-1-2011 11:24 编辑 ]
回复 #8 yping88 的帖子
I don't mean to offend, but it seems you are missing the point just like others here. Good parenting is neither pushing your kids to the limit by fear or authority nor letting them go wild and decide their future alone. Personally, I think it's about guidance, enlightenment, and courage. You show them the options, encourage them to do what they are interested at heart,and are brave enough to believe in your kids' own capability. You are the mentor, not the boss! As for you last question, I think the answer lies in the book, The Selfish Gene, by the famous evolutionary biologist, Richard Dawkins. Actually it is the whole point of David Brook's article. And I suspect it's also the very reason why most Chinese students lack of imagination and creativity...:Q回复 #9 funnybird 的帖子
I can't agree with you more on what you've said. Actually, to escape from the desperate Chinese education system is one of the most important reasons for many parents to immigrate their families to western countries. But if you have to live under that system, you can hardly do anything else than following it.The only thing I don't understand is, there are still so many overseas Chinese parents who are treating their kids as their own properties and trying to push their kids to do those things that they think are right. So I completely agree with you on this, a child should be living his/her own life, but not the life selected/arranged by his/her parents.
[ 本帖最后由 lisa2008 于 20-1-2011 15:20 编辑 ]
回复 #10 funnybird 的帖子
Don't get annoyed, our thoughts are nearly the same. But you should not ignore the strong impact by the current Chinese education system. Getting into university is the only way to "make a better/more successful life" is still the common understanding in China so far, and outstanding special skills (eg: musical, sports, etc) can be of good value to add points to university entrance examination.Except for entering universities, lack of other practical choices for local Chinese students to make a better life is the key problem. And if you furhter look into it, lack of resources vs too big population should be the cause.
[ 本帖最后由 lisa2008 于 20-1-2011 15:27 编辑 ]
回复 #12 lisa2008 的帖子
I'm not annoyed. I'm just frustrated. If people admit there's a problem, they should take initiative to make necessary changes. Refusing to do anything and citing various difficulties is simply incomprehensible to me...:L I am glad I rebelled against my folks and achieved independance. This had lead to a strained relationship with my parents. But if I'd followed what they'd laid out, and lived a life for their ambitions for me (rather than my own life), I'd be a totally miserable person.Unfortunately, a lot of Chinese kids woudn't dare to rebel against their parents and the cycle continues for yet another generation... A few corrections :)
Actually, we all know there is a problem, but we don't know how to solve it. (delete - So) What we need is a solution, not simply copying what (those - delete) western people do, but a way that is suitable to the Chinese (delete - people).
So far, I haven't found a sound solution for those parents who live in China (yet) . If they don't tell their children what is RIGHT from WRONG , how can the kids learn to fit in with the society?
I don't know the answer. I think (delete - till now,) most of the parents do not know what's the correct answer either.
As far as (delete - what) I can see, this education issue is not an isolated problem, it is linked with lots of other social issues. One of them is that most us Chinese people have no belief (delete - at all). Without the right belief, how can the parents know what is the RIGHT thing to do? I have to question the relevance of belief here - I presume you refer to religion?
Each religion only brings a narrow definition of right and wrong to serve it's own purpose. These rules often clashes with other religions and are very limited in their scope. ie, The banning of condoms by the Catholic church.
Besides, I think social standards on moral is pretty much self regulated. I don't need some fake god to tell me harming/ killing a personal is wrong.
I am an athiest, so far my existance has been far more honorable than some of the people guided by their god. And like I replied to you: At least I live by MY way, not my parent's.
But I digress, that is for another discussion. 原帖由 pinxinge 于 20-1-2011 17:59 发表 http://www.freeoz.org/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
Acturally, we all know there is a problem, but we don't know how to solve it. So what we need is a solution, not just what those western people do, but a way that is suitable to chinese people.
...
I don't quite believe it! If you don't know the solution to a problem, why can't "what those Western people do" be one? If you don't try it, how do you know it's not "suitable" to Chinese people? It's against the logic here...:Q
回复 #17 katsura 的帖子
I think you must be mistaken on "the right belief" that Pinxinge refers to...:o 原帖由 funnybird 于 20-1-2011 16:05 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gifI'm not annoyed. I'm just frustrated. If people admit there's a problem, they should take initiative to make necessary changes. Refusing to do anything and citing various difficulties is simply incomprehensible to me...
I hear what you are saying:P
Reforming the current education system in China is a way to improve the situation. However thinking about the key problem is mainly cuased by the lack of resources plus the huge population, which leads to strong competition everywhere in the sociaty, don't you think there is hardly any hope to get it well solved in the near future? 原帖由 katsura 于 20-1-2011 16:26 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
I am glad I rebelled against my folks and achieved independance. This had lead to a strained relationship with my parents. But if I'd followed what they'd laid out, and lived a life for their ambition ...
I had been very rebelious too since very young age and had once been regarded as a hopeless girl in school. But fortunately it was not too late before I realized that entering university could be the way for me to become really independant and have my destiny changed. I started working hard on scores since high school and successfully passed the university entrance examination. Then I rufused (strong fights involved of courses:L )my dad's university in which he was the professor there and entered the other one I liked the most in Beijing.
I know my parents have always been loving me. But what they offered to me was not what I wanted.
This is why I keep telling myself when bringing up my own child: if you love him, you give him freedom. 原帖由 pinxinge 于 20-1-2011 17:59 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
So far, I didn't find a sound solution for those parents who live in China. If they don't tell their children which is the RIGHT way, what will the children learn from the society? I don't know the answer. I think till now, most of the parents do not know what's the correct answer either.
As an ordinary parent in China, even if you knew what was the correct answer, do you want to take the risk of your own kid's life happiness to fight against the education system? The root cause of the problem is lack of resources, if one could not get to higher levels of the pyrimid, of course he could not get more resourses.
If you choosed to stay in China, there seemed no other better way than following the educaiton system and join the tough competition. This is why many parents who see this clearly want to immigrate to overseas.
[ 本帖最后由 lisa2008 于 21-1-2011 13:31 编辑 ] 原帖由 katsura 于 20-1-2011 19:18 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
Each religion only brings a narrow definition of right and wrong to serve it's own purpose. These rules often clashes with other religions and are very limited in their scope. ie, The banning of condoms by the Catholic church.
Besides, I think social standards on moral is pretty much self regulated. I don't need some fake god to tell me harming/ killing a personal is wrong.
I am an athiest, so far my existance has been far more honorable than some of the people guided by their god. And like I replied to you: At least I live by MY way, not my parent's.
I remember I saw your words in 宗教版 :lol :good 原帖由 funnybird 于 21-1-2011 09:32 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
I don't quite believe it! If you don't know the solution to a problem, why can't "what those Western people do" be one? If you don't try it, how do you know it's not "suitable" to Chinese people? It ...
Because the solution is extreeeeeeeemly difficult and complicated ;P
yes "what those western people do" is very good thinking, but the issue is, the root cause of the
Chinese problem is as what I said above - lack of resourses, and this leads to the cruel Chinese education system. So how can ordinary parents do anything with changing the cruel education system, or changing the resourses fact in China?
[ 本帖最后由 lisa2008 于 21-1-2011 13:33 编辑 ] I give up. When does the topic of the good parenting change to the attempt of revamping the education system in China? Is the two necessarily always in conflict? I've seen kids with good parenting doing well in so called "Chinese education system". As a matter of fact, a kid with good bringing-up would survive any education system. It's a pity to see people who give up without a good fight only because it's "too risky", "too complicated", "too difficult", etc....
To those parents with an apologist view on bad parenting, your kids have my deepest sympathy.:bye 原帖由 funnybird 于 21-1-2011 14:30 发表 http://www.freeoz.biz/ibbs/images/common/back.gif
I give up. When does the topic of the good parenting change to the attempt of revamping the education system in China? Is the two necessarily always in conflict? I've seen kids with good parenting doing well in so called "Chinese education system". As a matter of fact, a kid with good bringing-up would survive any education system. It's a pity to see people who give up without a good fight only because it's "too risky", "too complicated", "too difficult", etc....
never say give up:ppb_50 I am not ignoring the power of 'good parenting'. Actually that's what I am working on everyday.
This is because good parenting can only make the small enviroment best for the kid, not the big enviroment such as the school, the university, the society. For example, even if good parenting can have kids focusing on their interests rather than the competition, the fact in China is, tough competiton is everywhere. You can never avoid it from school, from university, from society, from job...... So when a kid grows up without 'competition training'(eg: something like what Amy Chua has been doing on her children, but may not be as tough as her anyway), he'll find himself can hardly make a living in the tough competition envoiroment because he might fail in school, fail in entering university, fail in finding a job to make a living.
or let's try to talk about it in another way:
may you give us some example on what you said 'I've seen kids with good parenting doing well in so called "Chinese education system". As a matter of fact, a kid with good bringing-up would survive any education system.' I personally tend to think this is just too ideal in current China.
[ 本帖最后由 lisa2008 于 21-1-2011 15:35 编辑 ]
回复 #29 pinxinge 的帖子
I may be naive and retarded, but I would say this: Amy Chua is surely a strict parent. Yet her method is in no way good parenting. In China or otherwise...:lol[ 本帖最后由 funnybird 于 25-1-2011 09:24 编辑 ]
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