DIAC关于叫停部分职业州担保和pro rata的说明
本帖最后由 LeeTheRiskTaker 于 12-8-2013 17:32 编辑Update: 参考翻译见5楼, 感谢@styx1009
Update #2: 关于第三个问题的参考解读请见8楼
Update #3: 关于8月5日最近EOI邀请量的分析请见这个帖子
下文是移民局给澳洲移民协会的电子邮件回信.没见到论坛里有人发这个,俺就转过来吧. 里面第二个表格不是公开数据,尤其有参考价值.
原帖地址: http://www.australiaforum.com/110802-post19.html
原帖作者: Mark Northam
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Just received the following from our industry association, sent from DIAC.
In 2012-13, the six occupational groups referred to in your email reached their occupational ceilings which meant no intending migrants in these occupations could be nominated or invited to apply for a visa until the ceilings were reset on 1 July 2013. In the first month of the 2013-14 program year, a significant proportion of available places were again used up for these six occupational groups and it was determined that the ceilings would again be met, but even earlier than in the previous program year. Based on the high numbers of Expressions of Interest (EOIs) being submitted for these occupational groups, the decision was therefore made to move to a pro rata allocation of the remaining places to allow limited numbers of the most highly skilled workers in these occupations to apply for a visa throughout 2013-14.
There is no change in the total number of places available for these six occupational groups under their occupational ceilings. However, the allocation of places will be spread out to ensure that highly skilled migrants who submit EOIs later in the program year are not prevented from applying by lower quality applicants taking all available places earlier in the program year. Again, I would highlight that this change has no impact on the number of places available for these occupational groups but it will allow places to be released throughout 2013-14, with a focus on ensuring the most highly skilled migrants can still apply for a visa, instead of having all places exhausted early in the program year.
In the current program year, the percentage of places used up for these six occupational groups prior to the 5 August 2013 invitation round were as follows:
Occupation ANZSCO Code Total Ceiling Invitations & Nominations Remaining places Percentage of places used Percentage of places remaining
Chemical & Material Engineers 2331 360 173 187 48.06% 51.94%
ICT Business & System Analysts 2611 1380 897 483 65.00% 35.00%
Electronics Engineers 2334 420 152 268 36.19% 63.81%
Telecomm Eng Prof 2633 300 106 194 35.33% 64.67%
Other Engineering Prof 2339 300 98 202 32.67% 67.33%
Software and Applications Programmers 2613 4800 1,168 3,632 24.33% 75.67%
Occupational ceilings will be reviewed as part of a general review of SkillSelect in 2013-14 and this will involve all key stakeholders, including the MIA and State and Territory governments. The department will be preparing a discussion paper for distribution to stakeholders and this will provide an opportunity to comment on how SkillSelect has operated to date and to identify areas for improvement in the future.
In relation to the specific issues you have raised in your email, please see the responses below:
1. We understand that the State and Territory Governments were advise that the following six occupations (or occupation groups)for GSM points tested visas (Subclass 190 and 489) can no longer be nominated:
• Chemical and Materials Engineers;
• ICT Business and Systems Analysts;
• Electronics Engineers:
• Telecommunications Engineering Professionals;
• Other Engineering Professional
• Software and Applications Programmers.
These six Unit Groups comprise 17 occupations, 16 or which are on the CSOL. Can we assume that those 16 occupations are all not able to be nominated by State and Territory Governments?
As noted above, the continuing high numbers of EOIs for these six occupational groups meant that the available places would have been fully exhausted well before the end of the program year if the decision to implement pro rata allocations had not been made. In some instances the available places would have been used up in Monday’s invitation round or the following round on 19 August. It was considered the most appropriate option to allow a limited number of the most highly skilled workers in these occupations to be invited to apply for a visa throughout the year, rather than allowing the ceilings to be met which would have prevented all skilled workers in these occupations from applying until the start of the next program year in July 2014.
Under these arrangements, the points score and date of EOI submission cut-off dates for these occupational groups are expected to increase over the course of the program year and these figures will be included in the regular SkillSelect invitation round report published on the department’s website. State and Territory Governments have been advised that if they have intending migrants for nomination in any of the six occupational groups who would have met the relevant cut-offs, they can refer these cases to the department for consideration of nomination on a case-by-case basis.
The intention of these changes is to ensure that the most highly skilled workers in these occupational groups are still eligible to apply for a visa. This will also avoid the situation of having a client being nominated or invited early in the program year at the expense of a more highly skilled intending migrant who cannot be nominated or invited later in the program year because the occupational ceiling has been reached. In this regard, SkillSelect is operating as intended to allow the best and brightest to apply for a visa, not on a first-in, first-served basis.
2. Does this “ban” on occupations apply to State/Territory nomination applications which have been approved by the State/Territory Governments, but which have not yet been issued with an invitation to apply for a visa?
Visa applicants who have in good faith lodged applications for State or Territory nomination and whose applications have either not been finalised, or whose applications have been finalised but have not yet had an invitation to apply for a visa issued, will have been treated most unfairly.
Registered Migration Agents who have advised and assisted applicants with State/Territory nominations will have been placed in the unreasonable and invidious position of being seen to have not given correct advice.
There is no ban on these occupations but as advised above, we have implemented a pro rata allocation for the remaining places under the existing occupational ceiling for these groups. If this action were not taken, the occupational ceilings would have been met for these groups well before the end of the program year. States and Territories are also able to refer cases for consideration where they have clients who would have met the relevant cut-offs based on points and date of EOI submission.
An application for a State or Territory nomination is not a visa application and clients are not able to apply for a visa until they have been nominated or invited to apply for a visa in SkillSelect. The clients referred to in the example above would also have been adversely affected if the relevant occupational ceiling had been reached since no one from the occupational group would be eligible for nomination or invitation until July 2014. Under the pro rata arrangements, the most highly skilled intending migrants from each occupational group will still be able to apply for a visa throughout the 2013-14 program year and as such, these arrangements can actually be seen as a positive development for clients, particularly those who do not submit EOIs until later in the program year.
3. Until today, when occupation ceilings were reached, they were no longer available for any GSM points based applications, not just State/Territory nominated applications.
Why has the decision been made to remove occupations from the State/Territory nominated Subclasses?
The MIA understands that State and Territory Governments have been advised that it is because there is a need to get “the best and the brightest”. This would assume that those obtaining State/Territory nomination are not the best and the brightest. Is that the case?
This decision would also seem to have the potential of causing great problems for some State and Territory Governments for whom the occupation groups are a significant component of their State Migration Plans. The decision could, in some cases, severely undermine those plans.
As noted above, State and Territory Governments can refer cases which would have met the relevant cut-offs for the six occupational groups for consideration of nomination on a case-by-case basis. This is consistent with the aims of ensuring the best and brightest intending migrants are nominated or invited to apply for a visa from SkillSelect, whether that be via the Skilled Independent or State or Territory nominated streams.
4. Why was there no consultation with important stakeholders on this matter?
It was necessary to take this action before the 5 August 2013 invitation round to ensure that the occupational ceilings were not reached in that round and given the time constraints, it was not possible to consult beforehand. To demonstrate the continuing high level of demand for the six occupational groups, the table below shows the number of current EOIs onhand compared to the number of available places under each occupational ceiling:
Occupation ID Description Total EOIs onhand Remaining places
2331 Chemical and Materials Engineers 113 179
2334 Electronics Engineers 178 256
2339 Other Engineering Professionals 214 193
2611 ICT Business and Systems Analysts 691 462
2613 Software and Applications Programmers 1546 3467
2633 Telecommunications Engineering Professionals 205 186
Three of the six occupations are already oversubscribed and the other three occupations are expected to do the same in the near future based on continuing high numbers of EOIs being submitted. In this context, it was necessary to take this action prior to consultation.
__________________
Mark Northam
Registered Migration Agent - MARN 1175508
Licensed NZ Immigration Adviser 201200086
Northam & Associates
Sydney, Australia 感觉重复提交的，acs不扣2年以上提交的等要占1／3以上。 fu122 发表于 12-8-2013 14:12 static/image/common/back.gif
感觉重复提交的，acs不扣2年以上提交的等要占1／3以上。
抱歉,没看懂什么意思.. 感谢你的分享，已经足够验证最近8月5日一批没收到邀请的猜测:good现实很残酷 本帖最后由 styx1009 于 12-8-2013 16:14 编辑
呃，看完简直内伤，简单翻译总结一下：
在2012-2013财政年，有6个大专业封顶了，which我们6大苦逼专业的人都知道是哪6个了哈。所以今年我们不能重蹈覆辙了，我们要控流控流再控流，把配额平均分配在一整年，让更有能力的人更聪明的人（which指的就是65+的同志们）虽然更晚提交，但也能被邀请……（就是说60分你丫洗洗睡或者你就起床再去奋斗吧！！！）
1.
这六大专业已经关闭州担保，涵盖了17个sol的和16个csol的小专业。
在这几个专业的大量的EOI提交的情况下，如果我们不在5 AUG这轮采取措施，那么很多就已经封顶了，或者下轮就妥妥儿的封顶。
那这样的话，那些高分的人们就要等到下个财政年2014年7月1日才能被邀请了，移民局实在是觉得不忍心让他们等呀。。。
DIAC出台的这个skillselect是based on 选择更好的~ 而不是 first-in first-served，也就是我们不提倡先到先得的愚蠢做法！（那你丫去年去干嘛了？今年前两轮你干嘛去了？）
2.
这个措施对已经递交190EOI的朋友也适用吗？
是的，你们被最不公平的对待了，不好意思……
但是你们可以走189,。。。。
其实这样对那些要更晚提交EOI的人是有好处的，不然的话，ceilings现在就满了。。。
你们会被基于按比例分配的方式邀请，慢慢等吧
3.直到今天，当ceilings封顶的专业，189和190就都没名额邀请了. 为什么还要在州政府担保的专业中移除这六大专业呢？（实话说我真没看懂这句的逻辑和他要表达的意思，但有一个意思我懂，那就是shut down州政府担保和按比例发放邀请的决定是正确的明智的有远见的。。。）
反正我们就是要选best 和brightest的。。。
但是有些专业是一些州的重要的组成部分，我们这个决定也有可能破坏了他们州的计划。所以州政府还是可以处理一些已经在cut offs之前的案子，如果你觉得那些申请者真的是你需要的，不同的case不同的需求和处理方法，这也和skillselect是选择最好的和最聪明的宗旨是一致的，不管是190还是189。。
4.为啥这个决定完全木有在被执行之前和利益相关者咨询？
因为在5 AUG直接执行简直太特么必要了，不然Y的就全满了~~~~之前去和利益相关者们商量完全是不现实的（咋不现实了，去年难道你们没有远见么？？）
下表是证据，前面的数字是手上的case的数量，后面那个是还剩下的有效配额数量，有3个都已经超了……（就是说如果5 AUG不先斩后奏的话，这三个都可能封顶了）
2331 Chemical and Materials Engineers 113 179
2334 Electronics Engineers 178 256
2339 Other Engineering Professionals 214 193
2339这是本人的专业，上轮15/7报告中显示还剩208个配额，楼主的文中提到5/8之前还剩202个（可能是190和489用了208-202=6个）敢情5/8这轮就邀请了202-193=9个？？？你Y能再少点么！！！！！！！！！！！
update！！我突然想到之前我算的每轮按比例分配的配额数量=剩余数量/剩余轮数=202/22=9.18约等于9。。。当时我觉得不可能设置这么少，有点太少了吧。。。结果比例真的就是这么定的。。。我以为下一轮会稍微人性一点儿、、、、、、、、、、、、
2611 ICT Business and Systems Analysts 691 462
2613 Software and Applications Programmers 1546 3467
2633 Telecommunications Engineering Professionals 205 18
其他专业的同学们自己算算吧，看看这轮都被邀请了多少个，再算一下每轮多少个，就知道自己命运如何了
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我看出来了，总的意思和我们猜的都一样。就是要把配额平均分配到每一轮，保证高分者随时递交随时邀请。。。至于为什么没事先说，因为他们觉得事先说不说都一样，反正DIAC说了算。。。。。
我是非常非常非常主观的大概翻译了下，千万不要和我掐语法和情绪，作为60分的不幸儿，我已经够内伤了，，，
但客观东西没翻译对的，望指正，不希望误导大家。。。
我内伤了，，，，，我去复习4个8了。。。。。:@
2613这轮邀请了196个，还行。。。 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 13:45 static/image/common/back.gif
呃，看完简直内伤，简单翻译总结一下：
在2012-2013财政年，有6个大专业封顶了，which我们6大苦逼专业的 ...
基本上就是你说的这个意思。 本帖最后由 LeeTheRiskTaker 于 12-8-2013 16:20 编辑
styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 15:45 static/image/common/back.gif
呃，看完简直内伤，简单翻译总结一下：
在2012-2013财政年，有6个大专业封顶了，which我们6大苦逼专业的 ...
感谢翻译!
对于第三个问题,俺个人是这么理解的. 前面的问题都是有关ceiling的,DIAC的回答无非就是说,之所以搞pro rata,是为了把机会留给后申请的高分申请者.这样有利于吸引the best and brightest.
于是提问者就接着发问了:好吧,就算上述说法有道理,那DIAC为何要叫停这些专业的州担保? 按照以前的政策,一旦ceiling达到,独立申请人和获得州担保的申请人都是不能在本财年递交申请的.(言下之意DIAC前面用来解释ceiling方面的说辞无法解释突然叫停州担保)
首先,如果还是按照DIAC那套说辞,这样做是为了吸引the best and brightest,那DIAC叫停州担保的做法是否可以解读为DIAC认为获得州担保的申请人都不属于the best and brightest?
再者,你这样让州政府很难办啊.比如州政府本年度计划要很多2613,你这样突然叫停,一下就把州政府计划打乱了.
DIAC的回答是,州政府还是可以把他们认为合适的人员refer给DIAC.当然,这种做法是在case by case的基础上(即要根据每个案例的情况,具体情况具体分析).
以上为个人观点,仅供参考 LeeTheRiskTaker 发表于 12-8-2013 16:17 static/image/common/back.gif
感谢翻译!
对于第三个问题,俺个人是这么理解的. 前面的问题都是有关ceiling的,DIAC的回答无非就是说,之 ...
所噶，我觉得你说的是，哎，反正一个主旨，那就是，如果你是best和highest，190关闭也挡不了你的路。。。你的未来在光明的189上。。。。 janetluo 发表于 12-8-2013 15:32 static/image/common/back.gif
感谢你的分享，已经足够验证最近8月5日一批没收到邀请的猜测现实很残酷
嗯,通过这两天各种渠道得来的消息事情已经比较明了了.就差DIAC发布8月5日的report来确认了. LeeTheRiskTaker 发表于 12-8-2013 16:26 static/image/common/back.gif
嗯,通过这两天各种渠道得来的消息事情已经比较明了了.就差DIAC发布8月5日的report来确认了.
出了。。。我发帖了。。。 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:22 static/image/common/back.gif
所噶，我觉得你说的是，哎，反正一个主旨，那就是，如果你是best和highest，190关闭也挡不了你的路。。。 ...
是啊.移民局这样的做法让六大职业的申请者一下处在十分不利的地位.
要在以前,因为提交的是visa application,移民局这种不事先通知随意改政策的做法极有可能带来严重的法律后果.
但是现在大家递交的都是EOI, 只是expression,所以就算吃了亏也只能哑巴吃黄连. 唉 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:27 static/image/common/back.gif
出了。。。我发帖了。。。
嗯,现在去看.谢谢分享 奇怪了，Ceiling里面2613已经邀请了1333个，这里为啥写1168？ shyaka 发表于 12-8-2013 16:32 static/image/common/back.gif
奇怪了，Ceiling里面2613已经邀请了1333个，这里为啥写1168？
因为你现在看的1333是5 AUG之后的了 已经更新了 估计就几分钟以前
1168是5 AUG邀请之前的 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:37 static/image/common/back.gif
因为你现在看的1333是5 AUG之后的了 已经更新了 估计就几分钟以前
1168是5 AUG邀请之前的
7.15的report里面写的是972 shyaka 发表于 12-8-2013 16:32 static/image/common/back.gif
奇怪了，Ceiling里面2613已经邀请了1333个，这里为啥写1168？
原帖是在几天前发的,可能是过时的数据 也就是说2613这轮邀请了1333-972=361个，很多啊~~~ 本帖最后由 styx1009 于 12-8-2013 16:50 编辑
shyaka 发表于 12-8-2013 16:38 static/image/common/back.gif
7.15的report里面写的是972
我黑体字有写，7.15的report里面是用了972个， 但不等于 8.05这轮之前的，因为中间有190和489的
所以，你大概可以算出，从7.15到8.05，190和489一共个用了1168减去972=？个配额
所以8.05这轮邀请的189就有1333减去1168=165个
也刚好符合 按比例分配这件事 那就是
（总配额4800个-8.05之前的1168个而不是7.15当天的972个）/ 22轮=165.01
这正好说明了每个专业的按比例分配就是这么来的 我的专业也刚好是这样
这是我的理解 因为我之前有把每一轮用掉的ceilings加起来，一般是1500至1700多个，减去1150个给189的，剩下的五六百个就是被期间的190和489用掉的，所以你每次看到你专业被邀请的数量，是这三个visa通道加起来的，而不是只是189的
如有不对，请大家指正 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:44 static/image/common/back.gif
我黑体字有写，report里面是7.15， 但不等于 8.05这轮之前的，因为中间有190和489的
所以，你大概可以 ...
同意这个分析:support: styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:44 static/image/common/back.gif
我黑体字有写，report里面是7.15， 但不等于 8.05这轮之前的，因为中间有190和489的
所以，你大概可以 ...
恩，应该是这个意思。 每月邀请会怎么邀呢？从高分，开始啥时候到165个（比如），然后就不邀了，剩下申请人就相当于死在eoi的库里面了？ 意思是不是那六个职业以后暂时或者永远都没有州担保了是不是？ styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 16:44 static/image/common/back.gif
我黑体字有写，7.15的report里面是用了972个， 但不等于 8.05这轮之前的，因为中间有190和489的
所以， ...
姐妹儿你太狠了啊！分析帝！偶赶脚你就是那批best and brightest里面的，你没问题！ xukegenius 发表于 12-8-2013 19:02 static/image/common/back.gif
姐妹儿你太狠了啊！分析帝！偶赶脚你就是那批best and brightest里面的，你没问题！
啊简直太励志了555555555555555555555555555555555
您说的太中肯了，哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈太感谢你的激励了~~~~~~~~~~~
我也觉得我是啊哈哈哈哈哈哈哈，所以我赶脚我去考4个8应该能踩到屎碰上运气！！！！！！！ homeboxoffice 发表于 12-8-2013 18:44 static/image/common/back.gif
意思是不是那六个职业以后暂时或者永远都没有州担保了是不是？
今年8月5号以后的六大职业190申请人应该是不能被提名了，但是明年7月初重新开放的时候还是会继续审理的。 homeboxoffice 发表于 12-8-2013 18:44 static/image/common/back.gif
意思是不是那六个职业以后暂时或者永远都没有州担保了是不是？
承蒙兄弟抬举。。。。雅思是鄙人那次运气比较好。。。过了不是还是得走190么。。。虽然我真心是想189的。。。无奈年龄不够。。。 styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 19:08 static/image/common/back.gif
啊简直太励志了555555555555555555555555555555555
您说的太中肯了，哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈太感谢你的激 ...
四个7不成吗？再搞个NAATI呢？ xukegenius 发表于 12-8-2013 19:20 static/image/common/back.gif
四个7不成吗？再搞个NAATI呢？
已经四个七了。。。natti通过率太低，而且没法自学 ，又费时间又费钱，感觉如果复习雅思，我还能一边找工作不影响 我总觉得四个八也不是impossible的 想试试！ styx1009 发表于 12-8-2013 19:42 static/image/common/back.gif
已经四个七了。。。natti通过率太低，而且没法自学 ，又费时间又费钱，感觉如果复习雅思，我还能一边找工 ...
偶觉得你可以试试三级笔译，我是说外部考试。因为看你上面的翻译功底还是不错的呀~