FreeOZ论坛

标题: Let's talk about Kavanaugh and modern feminism [打印本页]
作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 08:45
标题: Let's talk about Kavanaugh and modern feminism
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 14:22 编辑

This is interesting
作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 13:53
I was just thinking about this topic this morning!

To start with, allow me to paste an interesting article here first
作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 13:56
本帖最后由 yping88 于 5-10-2018 13:00 编辑

                                                                                                    The Devil’s Triangle
                                                          In the Kavanaugh hearing, American partisanship reached a point of no return

Plane passengers watched their headrest TVs and cried. The phones on Wall Street went unanswered for a time. In coffee shops and bars and in their homes, Americans united to watch what they knew would be a piece of history, live and televised. The United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary hearing heard testimony from two people: Brett Kavanaugh, a federal judge nominated to the Supreme Court, and Dr Christine Blasey Ford, a psychology professor who said that Kavanaugh had sexually assaulted her 36 years ago, when they were both in high school. The testimony lasted all day, and by the end of the hearing, it was ominously clear that the outcome, whatever it would be, would be unacceptable to half the country.
Very few social movements have created such rapid cultural change as the #MeToo campaign to call out sexual assault. A CNN headline claimed that “Christine Blasey Ford finds herself at the center of America’s #MeToo reckoning”, and while the movement might have spurred on the allegations themselves, the investigative mechanisms to hear them have not caught up. There might be no good judicial or executive body yet in existence to sensitively determine the truth of a historical sexual assault, but it’s hard to think of one less well suited than the committee, which, despite its name, is a near-guaranteed venue for travesties of justice.
The 11 Republicans on it are exclusively white men (in fact, a female Republican has never served on it), and the only minority represented was Mormons. The unsatisfactory procedural compromise Republicans reached with their 10 Democratic colleagues created a Frankenstein: the prosecutor from court proceedings – but applied solely to the plaintiff – sewn to grandstand interruptions, and ghoulish efforts at both admonishment and commiseration, all sectioned into five-minute blocks. The chairman, Senator Chuck Grassley, assiduously watched the clock. He tried to project concern for Ford, but what seeped through was his concern for the confirmation vote on Friday.
Grassley’s demeanour was part of a wider effort at Republican restraint and window-dressing, a kernel of self-awareness that 11 sour-faced old men interrogating a crying accuser might look sexist (this attempt at best behaviour still cracked – Senator Orrin Hatch told reporters that Ford was an “attractive witness”, and when asked to elaborate, said “she’s pleasing”.) The avuncular effort was almost worse than outright chauvinism, a festival of concern-trolling conducted through an appointed female proxy, an Arizona prosecutor called Rachel Mitchell. Mitchell explored the uncomfortable tactic of trying to console and discredit Ford at the same time.
Ford was so forthright and credible that no one dared question that she had been assaulted. Instead, the questioning was caltropped with a pernicious idea: it was a case of mistaken identity. This balloon had been floated already, and had not gone well on its maiden voyage. Ed Whelan, a former deputy assistant attorney general during the George W. Bush years, had claimed on Twitter that another man was responsible, proffered floor plans as evidence, implicated someone innocent, and then apologised and prepared himself for a lawsuit. But now the Mystery Man theory was back, and on social media conservative commentators suddenly embraced a century’s worth of defence lawyer ambit claims. Eyewitnesses make mistakes. The human memory is fallible. Perhaps that’s why we never learn anything.
Ford’s expertise meant that she was able to speak to the brain chemistry on memory herself, and the sole eyewitness, a former frat-boy called Mark Judge, was holed up in hiding in a beach house in Delaware. Why he was not compelled to give testimony was never satisfactorily explained. Instead, Mitchell cycled through gentle insinuative queries, which never quite became lines of questioning. Who had paid for the polygraph? Was it true she was afraid of flying? The White House was said to be displeased with these ambits, but the fix was already in. President Trump began calling senators mid-testimony, firming up their votes, growing impatient with the show trial’s lack of finale. Scrutiny was applied to Republican moderates, especially Susan Collins, Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski and Ben Sasse, who could each end the nomination with a vote, but had not stopped anything significant so far.
There was a lot of talk about the burden of proof. Should it be beyond reasonable doubt? A preponderance of evidence? Clear and convincing evidence? The trouble with a pseudo-court is that no one knows the process. But everyone knew the Rule: the man usually wins, especially if they’re a man like Brett Kavanaugh. The Clarence Thomas hearing in 1991 had already put a credibly accused sexual harasser on the court (two of the members of the current committee – Grassley and Hatch – had themselves voted for Thomas). Kavanaugh himself had assisted in the cross-examination of Bill Clinton, and was especially keen that counsel ask the president if he had ejaculated in Monica Lewinsky’s mouth. But the true low watermark was set, as always, by Donald Trump.
Was the committee considering accusations of 20 sexual assaults? Had the accused confessed to them on tape? Whatever came out, GOP base voters had already decided it could be lived with, or even embraced. An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll found that 54% of Republicans believed Kavanaugh should be confirmed to the Supreme Court even if Ford’s allegation of sexual assault was found to be true. When Kavanaugh began his statement, sometimes crying, sometimes yelling, so angry the pre-prepared pages snapped when he turned them, he was defending not just himself, but a whole system of entitlement and immunity that had already been found culpable – and survived. “Judge Kavanaugh showed America exactly why I nominated him,” Trump tweeted afterwards. Too right.
Every Republican senator began their remarks by apologising to Kavanaugh, a perverse display of what the Australian philosopher Kate Manne calls “himpathy”. Of course Republican senators acted in bad faith and grandstanded – that’s the job – but the wider trends in the conservative movement were less expected. There had been centre-right ambivalence about Kavanaugh – the Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell had warned Trump against his nomination – but, counter-intuitively, that vacillation disappeared in the face of the accusations. It was the moment many “Never Trump” conservatives came home. The former RedState writer Erick Erickson, driven into the wilderness after a crisis of faith about Trump’s character, tweeted in Kavanaugh’s favour more than 250 times in a 24-hour period.
They appealed to psychology, graphology and sometimes theology to persuade themselves, but all the evidence they really needed was an “honourable” career-conservative legal eagle under attack. This was too far. Senator Lindsey Graham suggested that in the future Republicans might be forced to make false allegations against Democratic nominees to even the score. It was described as the end of the line for illusions of media bias, of respect for the rule of law, of the last pretence of unbiased judicial nominations and nominees. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, it could also be the end of abortion in America, and given his track record, the conclusion of any effort to peacefully reconcile these disunited states.

RICHARD COOKE
Richard Cooke is The Monthly’s US Correspondent and Contributing Editor. He is also The Saturday Paper’s sports editor.


作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 13:59
I am so interested to be a keen witness and see how low the politics could go in both national and global stage
作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 15:26
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 15:46 编辑
yping88 发表于 5-10-2018 12:56
...


Oh dear, this is tooooo long for Friday afternoon when my brain has already gone slack waiting for alcohol to kick in.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 15:32
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly.
Hope no woman would pop out from nowhere and accuse me for that. One is automatically guilty if the accuser is a woman. That feels
作者: yearshappy    时间: 5-10-2018 18:11
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in your opinion?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 19:15
yearshappy 发表于 5-10-2018 17:11
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in y ...

We are on
作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 21:00
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 14:32
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly{ ...

What he did was years ago while they were both in high school! I tend to believe he wasn't wrongly accused, lots of things could happen in high school, that's just how it was!

Most of high school kids were quite foolish, especially when they maybe just turn 18 and regarded legal to drink. They were still struggling finding their identities, not quite sure what their accountability should be as a social individual. And then, all of a sudden, they were considered adults in the coming-of-age ceremony. Of course, the young people would be at loss and get confused!

Luckily, many mistakes they have made in high school are repairable! But, certain serious ones would be one day coming back haunting them!

In Kavanaugh's case, sexual assault, would be one of the mistakes he would have to be held accountable for, no matter how long the time has gone by! As an attacker, he might choose not to remember what he did (or he chose to shut that out of his memory, so he didn't have to deal with it, because it was too serious), but as a victim, she would never be able to come to terms with what had been done to her, her ego, her confidence and her faith in men.

作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 21:05
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 14:32
But guess what? No matter how many beers I have I would never do what Kavanaugh did, well allegedly{ ...

True or not, the approach Kavanaugh has taken to deal with the accusation against him is far more from what a future supreme court judge should have taken. From his capability to handle crisis alone, I dare to say he is not cut out for this position.

But, whatever Mr Trump decides won't surprise me!

作者: yping88    时间: 5-10-2018 21:53
#MeToo campaign, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.#MeToo spread virally in October 2017 as a hashtag social media in an attempt to tackle the prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace.

Following the campaign, there is a policy put in place to empower women who fell victims to sexual harassment or assault to speak up, to report it. Police will have to launch an investigation into the allegation no matter how long ago it happened.

However, Kavanaugh's sexual assault accusation was kidnapped and magnified by democratic party. They made what was supposed to be a local court hearing case into a national one, and the democrats desperately need to nip it in the bud for Trump nominated, non-trustworthy candidate to sit in the supreme court to steer America's judiciary future.

Because, the judge in supreme court is a permanent position and this judge is supposed to make the toughest calls when the nation is divided by certain issues. Kavanaugh is a republican and close friend of Trump's. It would be a nightmare for the democrats if Kavanaugh is successfully taking the chair in supreme court and steer America's judiciary wheel.

So, in my opinion, it is not much about #MeToo campaign or feminism!

作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 23:24
yping88 发表于 5-10-2018 20:00
What he did was years ago while they were both in high school! I tend to believe he wasn't wrongly ...

Oh darling. It's simply not good enough to say I tend to believe so he must be held accountable for.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 5-10-2018 23:53
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 5-10-2018 22:56 编辑
yearshappy 发表于 5-10-2018 17:11
What's your definition of modern feminism ? What role does it play in the Kavanaugh accusations in y ...


First off we need to draw a clear line between old fashion feminism and the modern feminism. The former one is something I admire. Under that banner people women and men gathered and fought for the equality in every aspect for women. And their goal was well achieved, well at least in the West

The latter one is only feminism in name. It's part of the entire far left social 'justice' movement which pushes for its extreme culture revolutionary ideology. All the sub movement in this pretty much share the same basic trait. They put people in different groups and simplify them as collective victims and collective oppressors/sinners. In modern feminism all women are victims. Women having all the same rights as men by law means nothing. You must believe women are still being oppressed, reduced. All men especially straight white men are sinners. They are the most despicable creatures.

The modern feminists claim they fight for gender equality but what they always ask for is women's privilege over men (e.g. Kavanaugh's case. The accuser being a women so we have to trust what she said? Women not only being over men but over rule of law?). They claim they fight for women's dignity while insulting men and reducing men to their gender and skin colour only has become a common practice and well justified (OZ senator Sarah Hanson Young addressed on TV for a sexual assault case 'Men act like morons and pigs'). They put some female individuals' misfortunes together and exaggerate them by 100 times and turn it into collectively oppressed victimhood so they can gather more women under their man-hating banner. They fabricated ridiculous concepts out of thin air like rape culture, 1/3 of the women were raped, and repeat them over and over like that will make it true.

If you don't agree with them. Congratulations! You are officially a bigot.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 10:14
yping88 发表于 5-10-2018 20:53
#MeToo campaign, is a movement against sexual harassment and sexual assault.#MeToo spread virally in ...

It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe women' slogans are all over the place. It's another case that 'feminists' use smearing tactics to strengthen female 'victimhood', to incite man hating sentiment.

For those extreme SJW's their agenda is above all. Even the rule of law must give way. A man is automatically guilty unless proved innocent? What kind of BS is that! And even the man is proved to be innocent by FBI it's still not good for them.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 10:17
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 09:34 编辑
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 22:24
Oh darling. It's simply not good enough to say I tend to believe so he must be held accountable fo ...


Hahaha, exactly!

The reason I didn't say he is to be held accountable for what he was accused of is that principle in the judicial system: A person is innocent before proved guilty!

But, I don't think this is about Kavanaugh is guilty or not, it is about whether he will be deemed qualified to steel America's judicial wheel and make the toughest calls for years to come, while he should have so many merits under his belt: Integrity, honesty, respect, capabilities to handle tough situation with grace, humbleness, modesty, intelligence. From how he presented himself in the judicial committee hearing, he proved himself none of those but dishonesty, disrespect, ignorance, childishness and dismissing of how women in that position feel.

By the way, bro! He was accused of the first sexual misconduct against Christine while under influence of alcohol. Back then, he was only 17 and Christine was 15, why didn't his think tank take on the strategy defending the allegation against him by saying: Christine, you are apparently lying on the ground alone that any 17 years old kid was not allowed to drink yet!

Bingo! Did Kavanaugh start drinking illegally at age of 17? What was going on then?

On top of this allegation, Kavanaugh has two more similar ones against him that claimed to happened to other two women while he attended college! And we can absolutely foresee what his reactions to these allegations are supposed to be!

作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 10:30
Anyhoo, if a guy who thought it is ok to grab women's (this woman is not related) pussy can take US president's office and guide America's national path, mislead international affairs' direction, then, I don't see why a sexual misconduct accused can't sit on the justice chair to make the toughest calls in maintaining the law in a national scale!

Guess, with Trump in the top office, Democrats only have to endure the nightmare for 4 years or another 4 more. But, their worst nightmare will come true if Kavanaugh's nomination for the supreme court judge is confirmed. Oh, brother, talking about the permanent and reoccurring nightmares with no way out for Democrats!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 10:39
' I'd rather be grabbed by the p***y than have a p***y for president.'
----- Katie Hopkins
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 10:52
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 09:17
Hahaha, exactly!

The reason I didn't say he is to be held accountable for what he was accuse ...

Honey, to disqualify a 53 yrs old man for the supreme court judge position for drinking at 17, which was 36 yrs ago? No kidding. You gotta come up with something more powerful than that.

And you're right. Giving him a guilty verdict for rape w/o evidence and not voting for him because of doubts are very different things. But what kind of doubt do you have? Is that reasonable doubt? Sorry I don't see any reason in it at all. If such an accusation w/o any coorboration and from a woman already proved to have lied for some of her testimony can drag down a candidate then there isn't a single man can be exempted from being ruined for nothing.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 11:07
牧马人 发表于 5-10-2018 22:53
First off we need to draw a clear line between old fashion feminism and the modern feminism. The ...

I do think that modern feminism is a totally unrelated topic in Kavanaugh's case, but while we are on this subject, I would like to pitch in my perspectives on it!

Yes, Old feminism saw women be franchised in political domain, to speak up their mind in public venues, walk out of house to earn their social status and sense of self-worth and dignity. But, it is not enough for women as a human being just like men are, they sure can accomplish as much as men can if given the equal opportunity and platform. Then, here comes the modern feminist campaign.

This modern campaign has seen women become active in all walks of life once considered impossible: Women are seen in parliament house making themselves heard in a far-and-wide magnitude, women take stage in public venues and stand up for the minority and the vulnerable, women are enlisted in army and police force maintaining social orders, women are empowered to pick up the scalpels operating patients and saving lives, women are seen to hold a chain saw working alongside their male counterparts in logging business...And so on, and so on.

But, one thing women are still battling is violence against them from their male fellow citizens. Sexual misconducts against women can often be heard in working places, public transport, pubs, schools....

In all sexual misconducts accusations, there is a common public outcry predominantly from men that says: Women shouldn't hang out late in the evening anywhere (even in their own house, they could be get sexually or physically assaulted, murdered), walk alone in the dark, or dress up sexy...Or in other word, that saying is hanging around behind this outcry: Whatever happens, you (Women) have that coming to you through your behaviour.

So, the modern feminists counteract that mindset and appeal to the public: It's not women who should change their behavour, that's men who should.

作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 11:15
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mates only? 'Grab by the balls' is always being said but is there a single man whinged about it for feeling offended? Sometimes you're offended only because you want to be.

I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuine any more. Not only men, people talk dirty in bedrooms in locker rooms. That's what people do and there is nothing wrong with it.  What's the point to make a big fuss out of that? On the other hand Bill Clinton got his secretary on her knees offering him an indescribable service in HIS OVAL OFFICE yet still got to be president for years and his wife still became a representative for women's rights? That's so fucked up.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 11:24
If we argue that the modern feminism has gone too lefty, then, I can confront this by saying: No, it's not too lefty enough to see off the misogynism inflicted on female in the society, to save many women's lives from their current or former male partner, to stop women from sexually harassed or assaulted by their male counterparts.

Here is the 2017's statistics here in Australia I copied:

1 in 4 women have experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


1 in 5 women have experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment during her lifetime.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.

Bryant, W. & Bricknall, S. (2017). Homicide in Australia 2012-2014: National Homicide Monitoring Program report. Canberra: Australian Institute of Criminology. Retrieved from: https://bit.ly/2ozctxh.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 11:40
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 09:14
It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe wom ...

Guess it's fair to say that there is a kind inherited hierachy all over the world in which men are proudly sitting atop the social chain by only being a man.

If you are 100% honest and brave enough, you can't deny that you, as a male, have been enjoying the male privilege all through your life, everywhere you go! Even in this modern age, in so many societies, a girl's birth and existence is still considered insignificant! Some girls are even deprived of their living rights before birth or after. So, you can't say that women are playing the victim card. Women feel victimized is because they are victimized, the only thing they can do is raising the public awareness by speaking up and standing up for themselves while their perpetrators don't.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 11:53
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 09:14
It has everything to do with modern 'feminism' and #me too. That's why the #metoo and 'believe wom ...

Whenever a sexual misconduct accusation is brought up against a man, especially a powerful, public figure, he doesn't become automatically a guilty man. He and his supporters will instinctively deny the allegation and send out the unsaid message to the victim: Bugger off, you! You only accuse me that because you want to gain the fame, raise to the social top or make a big money out of it by exploiting what might or might not have happened.

Question is: Why women can gain those advantages by accusing men of the sexual misconducts but not in reverse situation? Have we ever seen any cases in which things have turned out to be the other way around?

So, men have the power to deliver all those privileges they claim the women are after! What does this suggest: Male is atop the social chain!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 12:21
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 11:49 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 10:24
If we argue that the modern feminism has gone too lefty, then, I can confront this by saying: No, it ...


20% women have 'experienced' sexual 'violence'. Wording is everything isn't it? Is hearing of somebody's case also kind of experience? Who can say no? Is spanking sort of violence? If someone who just enjoyed last night insists it is I don't know how to argue with her. Why not just say 20% women experienced rape or attempted rape? Have to keep it ambiguous otherwise it will fuck up.

1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment and only based on survey. Well we have very sophisticated law to deal with sexual harassment. There is nothing to prevent women from filing their complaints. I would rather look into the figures for how many case were filed, processed and men got charged for it other than relying on a survey to tell the true story. Same deal as the sexual violence. How many rape cases filed, how many rapist got verdict. Sorry honey, if there is something more objective in place that everyone can get to investigate by the same standard a survey mean nothing to me. This survey is just another perfect example how badly the hard left social justice movement has infiltrated in every level of the society to manipulate people's mind.

Moreover what is sexual harassment exactly? Who holds the standard? The law or the women by their subjective opinion? Is a man pursuing a woman also regarded as harassment? Likely to be if the women had no interested in that very man. But guess what if one woman hates to be 'harassed' so much nobody will come and 'harass' her. That's also part of the reason Asian girls are so popular nowadays. Not only because they are exotic but also because ON AVERAGE they still like to be pursued.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 12:25
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mates only? 'Grab by the balls' is always being said but is there a single man whinged about it for feeling offended? Sometimes you're offended only because you want to be.

What's been said in a locker room with only your mates let out to the public by who? Someone eavesdropped or Trump's mates felt obliged to make the locker-room talk a public access?

I don't think it is a normal talk in a locker-room or bedroom with anyone or anywhere or by any gender that goes "Grab women by their pussy" "Grab men by their balls".

However, if that's from a common male or female (given that is said in private), nobody is gonna take offense out of it. But, if that's said in public, that male or female will be certainly judged or even criticized by their mates. If that's from a public figure (Of course his wife won't put him in an awkward position no matter what has been said in the bedroom to degrade women), then, as long as his disparaging remarks against any group will be publicly scrutinized and judged.

The same rule applies to a female public figure without any exception whatsoever!

By the way, even men themselves express muscular feeling by exploiting their private parts: Show your balls; Where are your balls?

Then, how men can play victims when women said the same thing as men do?

And more, have you ever heard any women express their feminine feeling by exploiting their private parts: Show your ....
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 12:38
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 11:43 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 11:25
Seriously what is exactly wrong with saying 'grab them by the p***y' in a locker room with your mate ...


Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. Anybody can talk dirty in totally private occasions. That's only people being genuine. My signature says the same thing. If I'm an American I would have zero problem with having a genuine man for president. But to have someone who talks beautifully but behave ugly? Some people haven't had enough politicians like this they still want to have another one. Then it's their rights to vote for that. But no thanks, not for me.

Well if women want to be proud of their p***y, then by all means do it. I will be absolutely supportive. Why not? Everybody comes from there. You don't think it's existing? Go check #slut walk. P***y is all over the place.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 12:53
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 13:55 编辑

I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuine any more. Not only men, people talk dirty in bedrooms in locker rooms. That's what people do and there is nothing wrong with it.  What's the point to make a big fuss out of that? On the other hand Bill Clinton got his secretary on her knees offering him an indescribable service in HIS OVAL OFFICE yet still got to be president for years and his wife still became a representative for women's rights? That's so fucked up.

Excellent argument by throwing Bill Clinton's case in the mix, mate!

When he was questioned about the allegation against him (by the way, the allegation was brought up by the republicans rather than the victim herself), I was over there in the States. I saw almost on every TV channel, there were Talk Show presenters, Comedians, TV show audience making him the butt of all jokes! Before his sexual misconduct was proved true, he automatically denied the allegation against him in public, and lied to the investigators.

I, myself, at that time, thought it would be justified to get him impeached and kicked out of the Oval Office. While Hillary Clinton chose to stay with him and rally behind him, it took me hundreds of questions to no avail figuring out her intention and life goal. Especially, she, as a first lady, was supposed to be representing all women in America and showing her stance on what the modern feminism stands for!

But, I guess she had so many untold hopelessness and frustration to make the decision that she did, even she had the enormous doubts about what the future holds for her family and marriage, she chose the democrat party, she rose above the adversities and remained focused on her party's future rather than her own.

When it comes Hilary representing American women's rights, I personally don't hold any sympathy for her when her qualification and eligibility were questioned for standing on the frontier of feminism's campaign!

Bravo, bro, for bringing up this instance!  

作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 13:05
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 10:40
Guess it's fair to say that there is a kind inherited hierachy all over the world in which men are ...

I'm honest I'm brave enough to be political incorrect to say male privilege is a bloody myth in Western society. Let's not mix China or India into this. Let's not claim women are oppressed in the West because what's happening in other countries. That's nonsense.

And those modern feminists in the west, I only have seen them waging war against men in the West. When women from other culture got really victimized and need somebody to stand up for them those outspoken 'feminists' are nowhere to be found because they have to be political correct to respect other culture.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 13:46
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 11:53
I can't remember since when the political correctness has gone this mad. People can't even be genuin ...

I probably hasn't made my point clear. What really bothered me was not Clinton's indescribable service. He is a man and I know men. Sometimes men do that. It's not nice thing but it's something we have to live with. And at the end of the day I don't need a saint to lead the country. I need someone who can get the bloody jobs done. How and where he enjoyed his service and how Hilary dealt with it had nothing to do with his job. Full stop. It bothered me a little that he lied to the public about it. But, hey, aren't we grownup enough to acknowledge politicians lie all the time? On the other hand if Clinton's issue can be waved off what's the point to bother Trump's 'grab by the p***y'? I don't bother at all.

What really bothered me was the hypocrisy and double standard in that election. Seems you don't like either of them then good on you. But we have to face the reality that the majority of Trump haters would die for seeing Hilary to be elected and till today many of them still do. That's just so fucked up.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 15:33
20% women have 'experienced' sexual 'violence'. Wording is everything isn't it? Is hearing of somebody's case also kind of experience? Who can say no? Is spanking sort of violence? If someone who just enjoyed last night insists it is I don't know how to argue with her. Why not just say 20% women experienced rape or attempted rape? Have to keep it ambiguous otherwise it will fuck up.

It's not about wording in statistics as per ABS, it's about what a daunting reality women are living with! Of course "hearing someone else's" ordeal doesn't count as a personal experience! Questioning ABS' statistics credibility only shows your assumption that women who participated in the survey have no idea what sexual violence is! Oh, boy, that's gonna be huge debate!

Spanking? Who gives anyone the right to spank anyone else that's equal with the spank-deliver in social identity? And yes, the spanking without consent from the spankee (I made up this word, hahaha) boils down to sexual harassment, no matter who is the spank-deliver and who is the recipient.

Whoever enjoyed last night would keep enjoying many more nights to come with both parties' involvement and expectations. It's consented joy, who would all of a sudden blow off that happiness with no reason at all.

But, in this case, if any party wants to break it up and make it perfectly clear that she/he doesn't want it any more for whatever reason, the other party just chose to turn a deaf ear to that request and still wanted to engage that party into intimate interactions or sexual activities by any means, then, Yes. That is a sexual harassment or violence against the non-consensual party.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 15:40
1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment and only based on survey. Well we have very sophisticated law to deal with sexual harassment. There is nothing to prevent women from filing their complaints. I would rather look into the figures for how many case were filed, processed and men got charged for it other than relying on a survey to tell the true story. Same deal as the sexual violence. How many rape cases filed, how many rapist got verdict. Sorry honey, if there is something more objective in place that everyone can get to investigate by the same standard a survey mean nothing to me. This survey is just another perfect example how badly the hard left social justice movement has infiltrated in every level of the society to manipulate people's mind.

That's exactly why #MeToo campaign comes to existence to raise the public awareness, encourage women who suffered from this ordeal to speak up, to put message across to all women letting them know what resources that would be accessible to them and what backups they would have available if unfortunately they found themselves in this situation.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 16:06
本帖最后由 yping88 于 7-10-2018 09:17 编辑
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 11:38
Then I guess we have to agree to disagree. Anybody can talk dirty in totally private occasions.  ...


Being genuine and being disgraceful is completely different concept in politics, my dear!

Take for instance Mr Trump! He has been often behaving disgracefully around women and talking about women in a disparaging manner, that's disgusting behaviour under Genuineness' disguise!

Guess you remember how many times he lied whenever facing the sexual misconduct allegations against him; How many times he lied about how he built Trump business; how he lied about his camp's connections with Russia. In fact, there is an ongoing scrutiny that looks into how he dodged paying his due taxes and fulfill his citizen's tax-liability when he inherited the vast properties and estates from his father!

So, he is not genuine or honest at all! Don't you use that word on him loosely to devalue it, my dear friend!
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 16:28
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 15:33 编辑
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 12:05
I'm honest I'm brave enough to be political incorrect to say male privilege is a bloody myth in We ...


I can only respond to this post by posting a fact that's in the statistics (Once again, you can question its credibility and authority).

Since #MeToo movement comes to existence in 2017, it has imposed enormous impact on the following countries:

Afganistan, Australia, Canada, Chile, China, Ethiopia, France, Germany, India, Israel, Palestinian Territories,
Italy, Japan, Kenya, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Philippines, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom

So, it's not fair to say that feminine campaign only "wages the war against men in the West", they have done extremely well sending the message all across the world!

Plus,  I am not a big fun calling this campaign a war against men, because it's not a war. Its purpose and endpoint is reaching out to women in all walks of life, globally if it will, to raise the public awareness about the prevalence and magnitude of sexual harassment or violence against women, and how those issues have gone unspoken of due to whatever reasons or concerns!
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 16:35
My dear friend, I have to take a break now, because my hands almost became the claws doing what I have been doing today and being a keyboard worrier! Guess, you are the same!

作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 17:43
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 14:33
20% women have 'experienced' sexual 'violence'. Wording is everything isn't it? Is hearing of somebo ...

Here we go. Any narrative put out there by to promote 'social progressive' propaganda can't even be questioned. OK, let me be a bigot to do that.

Dear, how you define sexual violence or harassment or experience is only your opinion. Again you are an individual only. Nobody can represent other people's opinion. So who on earth can be sure everyone stick to the same standard and all be genuine when they ticked the box for that survey? Because it was women who answered the questionnaire so I have to believe it? Even it completely contradict with official data based on objective standard and GENUINE CASES?? No wonder what happened to Kavanaugh. Same kind of logic everywhere.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 17:51
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 14:40
1 in 2 women has experienced sexual harassment and only based on survey. Well we have very sophistic ...

I can agree that #metoo did encourage some women to speak up. But if the real situation is so bad and the #metoo have been there for a few years have we seen a sharp hike of filing of sexual harassment complaint, not necessarily need to get close to that 50% ratio at least make that look a bit more convincing? No, not even close. Nothing has significantly changed except the noise of screaming in the protests and the further strengthened victimhood sentiment.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 17:56
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 19:30 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 15:28
I can only respond to this post by posting a fact that's in the statistics (Once again, you can  ...


#metoo has imposed enormous impact on Afganistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Philippines? Oh dear, you can't be serious. Oh China happened to be in that list as well. Well I just happen to know China. Enormous? The word I would use is little.

No further comments on this unless I see any solid evidence. I know there isn't. #metoo can not only create men's guilt from thin air it can also create its achievement from thin air as well.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 18:23
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 19:31 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 15:06
Being genuine and being disgraceful is completely different concept in politics, my dear!

Take ...


What can I say. It's your rights to call that disgraceful. I would rather be friend with a genuine disgraceful man than a hypocrite.

Alright let's talk more about Trump. What 'disgraceful' thing did he say about women except 'grab by the p***y'? To be honest I can't think of any. He likes to make comments even mockeries sometimes about PEOPLE and of course some of them would be women. But please bear in mind it's a huge different between mocking someone who happened to be a women and mocking someone because she is a women.

Why do anybody think women should be exempt from mockery? Nobody should be, including women. Again the modern feminism isn't about equal rights. It's about privilege over men. Mocking men is fine. Call men morons and pigs is fine but how dare you mock a woman! I don't call mockery disgraceful. I say the tactic to impose collective victimhood onto all women is VERY disgraceful. Because the one who got mocked was a woman so every woman should feel offended? Come on.

And sexual 'misconduct', oh dear, another perfect example of the beauty of wording art. What is misconduct exactly except raping and harassment? Any law case went through and verdict against him was reached? Must keep it ambiguous again! Since the climate change sneakily replace global warming I have seen so much contribution the leftwing movement has done to English wording.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 18:23
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 15:06
Being genuine and being disgraceful is completely different concept in politics, my dear!

Take ...

What can I say. It's your rights to call that disgraceful. I would rather be friend with a genuine disgraceful man than a hypocrite.

Alright let's talk more about Trump. What 'disgraceful' thing did he say about women except 'grab by the p***y'? To be honest I can't think of any. He likes to make comments even mockeries sometimes about PEOPLE and of course some of them would be women. But pleas bear in mind it's a hug different between mocking someone who happened to be a women and mocking someone because she is a women.

Why do anybody think women should be exempt from mockery? Nobody should be, including women. Again the modern feminism isn't about equal rights. It's about privilege over men. Mocking men is fine. Call men morons and pigs is fine but how dare you mock a woman! I don't call mockery disgraceful. I say the tactic to impose collective victimhood onto all women is VERY disgraceful. Because the one who got mocked was a woman so every woman should feel offended? Come on.

And sexual 'misconduct', oh dear, another perfect example of the beauty of wording art. What is misconduct exactly except raping and harassment? Any law case went through and verdict against him was reached? Must keep it ambiguous again! Since the climate change sneakily replace global warming I have seen so much contribution the leftwing movement has done to English wording.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 20:26
本帖最后由 yping88 于 6-10-2018 20:48 编辑
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 16:43
Here we go. Any narrative put out there by to promote 'social progressive' propaganda can't even b ...


Bravo, mate!

You have the balls to challenge ABS data and women's faith in ticking the boxes in the questionnaire forms!

If possible, you should rerun the polls every year against ABS ones and carefully enlist the women who can participate the survey!

So, we, as the general public, can access the GENUINE data and get PERSPECTIVE about the outcome of the survey!

Hey, bro, I only mean it in the argumentative perspective, there is no way or out of any of my intentions to be cynical about what I just said.

Hope you continue to be a good sport! I appreciate the way we discuss things through!

Thank you, my dear friend!

作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 20:39
Nothing has significantly changed except the noise of screaming in the protests and the further strengthened victimhood sentiment.

We can look at this from a different angle recommending that #MeToo campaign should have done more to it a household accountability letting their boys grow up acknowledging women matter. Instead of sending their mother, aunties, cousins, nieces and sisters out screaming, protesting and alleging their victimhood, they should make their female family members and significant others feel safe and secure about their identities!
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 20:44
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 16:56
#metoo has imposed enormous impact on Afganistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, Philippines? Oh dear, you c ...

Ok, my unfortunate choice of word to generalize all the countries listed. So, I would go for "some degree of impact" in some countries depending on what social context it would be!

Playing word game, bro! Way to go!  
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 20:56
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 17:23
What can I say. It's your rights to call that disgraceful. I would rather be friend with a genui ...

Good argument, bro! You are right that women is no exception when it comes to mockery, everybody should be a good sport at the good, innocent jokes in the social context, if they are seeking gender equality!

However, Donald Trump or any other men of his kind should be isolated from those innocent mockeries. Please read this article if interested, you may find some answers to the questions you raised.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/ ... n-ghitis/index.html
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 20:57
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 19:39
Nothing has significantly changed except the noise of screaming in the protests and the further str ...

I thought we should stop teaching boys to be boys but take all children gender neutral as per the latest left ideology. So if I were really to follow that I would find it really difficult to get all the aspects reconcile.

#Metoo can get boys know women better? Hmmm, I would rather teach boys to be gentlemen (oops I just happen to be political incorrect again. Gentlemen? That's  disgusting masculinity sexism) to respect women, to protect women. Or should I teach boys as the #Metoo has been doing, hey son, don't rape alright?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 21:01
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 19:44
Ok, my unfortunate choice of word to generalize all the countries listed. So, I would go for "some ...

I assumed that was not your wording but just quote from something from the internet. Let me put it this way. For those countries I questioned the impact is 0 except for China it is little. Please change my mind.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 21:09
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 19:57
I thought we should stop teaching boys to be boys but take all children gender neutral as per the  ...

As matter of fact, boys don't have to be brought up according to any ideology, but to common sense and integrity. As a legal guardian who is accountable for what their boys could potentially turn out to be, you only need to let them know how heavy the weight could be having something disgraceful and unbearable inflicted on their loved ones or significant others against their will.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 21:20
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 20:01
I assumed that was not your wording but just quote from something from the internet. Let me put it ...

I don't have to change your mind, likewise, you don't have to change mine! We could just agree the disagree, remember? There is nothing wrong that everybody would have some perspectives of their own on certain issue.

That's the whole idea freedom of speech is all about!

About the impact #MeToo campaign brings on those countries, I can't provide my personal experiences at all, because that's not possible for me to go seeking answers over there. All the resources I could rely on is statistics accessible to me, or from friends who happen to live somewhere.

Sad truth is that I don't have the balls like you do to challenge them!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 21:23
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 20:09
As matter of fact, boys don't have to be brought up according to any ideology, but to common sense ...

As matter of fact, boys don't have to be brought up according to any ideology.

Good to see you are not that left. I knew from the beginning that's why we can have a real conversation. But do we really need #Metoo to teach us common sense and integrity? I don't. And thanks to the Kavanaugh case people get a chance to see what #Metoo is really up to. Punish a man for accusation w/o any corroboration. That is exactly the opposite of common sense and integrity.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 21:26
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 20:20
I don't have to change your mind, likewise, you don't have to change mine! We could just agree the ...

Then please show me some stats. If it really makes some sense I may change my mind. In fact I change my mind all the time including some fundamental changes.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 21:32
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 20:23
As matter of fact, boys don't have to be brought up according to any ideology.

Good to see you  ...

In my opinion, Kavanaugh's case is not only about #MeToo campaign, not what he really did or did not either! It's more about whether he really has the essential qualifications required from him: Supreme Court Judge's temperament, integrity, capability to face any crisis, impartiality in political stance, clear conscience to make the toughest calls in America's judicial world!
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 21:43
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 20:23
As matter of fact, boys don't have to be brought up according to any ideology.

Good to see you  ...

To drag this argument on, I should maintain that the key accounts Christine brought up against him did stand corroboration. Such as the date of the incident correlated with Kavanaugh's yearbook entry, the key witnesses she provided did turn up for their brewsky catch-up, Christine confided and identified Kavanaugh to her husband as her attacker years before Kavanaugh was promoted to DC judicial circle, a key witness both  sides identified refused to testify.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 21:49
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 20:51 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 20:32
In my opinion, Kavanaugh's case is not only about #MeToo campaign, not what he really did or did n ...


Fair enough. If the protest was not about a dodgy accusation but about him being a conservative then I would have no problem whatsoever at the first place. But no. The #Metoo didn't want to stop at protesting him for being conservative. They wanted to do whatever they could to smear him, to ruin him, to bully the senators who voted for him even. They have done a really good job at showing their own true colour.

And those qualification, temperament, integrity, capability to face any crisis, can we find anything wrong in regards to these? I can't. The tricky things are here, impartiality in political stance. It's tricky because impartiality doesn't exist when it comes to political stance. It's tricky because people like to attack a stance for being partial because the stance doesn't align with theirs, especially the far left, oh they just love to do it. Another beauty is the clear conscience. Who to define what is conscience? In many cases who scream louder and push harder get to do that.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 21:56
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 20:26
Then please show me some stats. If it really makes some sense I may change my mind. In fact I chan ...

Even about the credibility and authority of the bureau that conducts the survey and brings up the statistics, everyone has their own opinions. You have already challenged ABS' statistics, so, I recommend you to single out the ones that you trust the most and get a real sense how serious #MeToo campaign should get.

Then, you can show what you find and change my perspective! I am very easy to swing!
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 22:05
本帖最后由 yping88 于 7-10-2018 09:13 编辑

And those qualification, temperament, integrity, capability to face any crisis, can we find anything wrong in regards to these? I can't. The tricky things are here, impartiality in political stance. It's tricky because impartiality doesn't exist when it comes to political stance. It's tricky because people like to attack a stance for being partial because the stance doesn't align with theirs, especially the far left, oh they just love to do it. Another beauty is the clear conscience. Who to define what is conscience? In many cases who scream louder and push harder get to do that.

That is why out of countless brilliant judges, only a few can be qualified to sit in the high chair in supreme court as a judge to navigate through and our of America's judicial dilemma in which there is no winning voice. To scare democrats out of their shell, that position is supposed to be permanent.
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 22:14
Fair enough. If the protest was not about a dodgy accusation but about him being a conservative then I would have no problem whatsoever at the first place. But no. The #Metoo didn't want to stop at protesting him for being conservative. They wanted to do whatever they could to smear him, to ruin him, to bully the senators who voted for him even. They have done a really good job at showing their own true colour.

That's why in the very beginning, I said the lowest level in politics is yet to come!

But, what democrats has achieved though in all this is that they get to expose how Trump's nominee behaves while facing the challenges, how he owes up to what he did in the past or how he deals with the adversities when "wrongly accused"(I have to quote this because I believe what's said happened really happened).
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 22:16
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 6-10-2018 21:43 编辑
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 20:56
Even about the credibility and authority of the bureau that conducts the survey and brings up the  ...


I was asking for stats that can show what impact #Metoo had made to countries like Afghanistan, not something like the ABS survey.

As for the real situation for sexual violence and harassment there is already stats from the Australian police department, based on objective standards and real cases so no survey would mean anything to me.

Here comes a different perspective
The number of rape cases in 2010 is 6,378. Given that men and boys can also get raped but less likely so I reckon it's fair to assume 5,500 cases were against women. If this rate keeps for 100 years and all victims only to be victim once then the total number of raped women is 550,000.  That's only 4.4% of all the living women in Australia. Please note I counted for 100 years! Given that most victims only got raped between 15 to 45, 100 years means 3 complete generations.  So the real ratio is 1.5%. Screw the 1/3. That's purely BS
作者: yping88    时间: 6-10-2018 22:29
牧马人 发表于 6-10-2018 21:16
I was asking for stats that can show what impact #Metoo had made to countries like Afghanistan, no ...

Fair enough!

You do realize that not all sexual misconduct cases make it to the police department, don't you? Otherwise, police department wouldn't have had any more resources to tackle any other more serious issues.

That's why #MeToo campaign gets to spread quickly far and wide, because it covers all sexual misconducts: harassment, sexual abuse, sexual violence. Out of these misconducts, single harassment won't necessarily make a reportable case, will it?

作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 22:37
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 21:29
Fair enough!

You do realize that not all sexual misconduct cases make it to the police departm ...

I do realize that. I also do realize no way that only 5% of the rape cases made it to the police department. Maths already in the post above.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 6-10-2018 22:38
yping88 发表于 6-10-2018 20:43
To drag this argument on, I should maintain that the key accounts Christine brought up against him ...

I'll spend some time on that.
作者: yping88    时间: 7-10-2018 09:12
Breaking News:

Kavanaugh has been confirmed to make a judge in Supreme Court by the vote 50:48, with nearly half of senators voted lack of confidence in his qualification!

This outcome means that from now on out, the nation's most controversial disputes will be steered onto totally different direction: Abortion right, LGBT rights, the scope of presidential power (could be significantly compromised for Democrats president but unreasonably strengthen Republican president if Kavanaugh can't be impartial in his political stance) and the influence of religion on this society.


作者: yearshappy    时间: 7-10-2018 09:46
yping88 发表于 7-10-2018 09:12
Breaking News:

Kavanaugh has been confirmed to make a judge in Supreme Court by the vote 50:48,  ...


a narrow win but he won; it's also a Trump's win

sounds like a joke in the politics of the United States (an allegation between a 15 & a 17 back 30?40? years ago, was so publicised)


I'm interested to see how it goes from here.

作者: 牧马人    时间: 7-10-2018 09:58

US needs to steer more conservative. So does OZ. The whole West has been too left. Time to turn the table around.
作者: yping88    时间: 7-10-2018 09:58
yearshappy 发表于 7-10-2018 09:46
a narrow win but he won; it's also a Trump's win

sounds like a joke  in the politics of the ...

Exactly, this pushes Australia's politics off the first chair as the butt of all jokes, doesn't it!

I, too, am a very keen witness and get ready to be cracked up on what's to come in US' politics!
作者: yping88    时间: 7-10-2018 10:09
According to federal statute, the Court normally consists of the Chief Justice of the United States and eight associate justices who are nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Once appointed, justices have lifetime tenure unless they resign, retire, or are removed from office.[4] Each justice has a single vote in deciding the cases argued before it; the chief justice's vote counts no more than that of any other justice. However, the Chief Justice—when in the majority—decides who writes the court's opinion. Otherwise, the senior justice in the majority assigns the writing of a decision. In modern discourse, the justices are often categorized as having conservative, moderate, or liberal philosophies of law and of judicial interpretation. While a far greater number of cases in recent history have been decided unanimously, decisions in cases of the highest profile have often come down to just one single vote, thereby exposing the justices' ideological beliefs that track with those philosophical or political categories. The Court meets in the Supreme Court Building in Washington, D.C. Its law-enforcement arm, the United States Marshals Service, is under the oversight of the U.S. Department of Justice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States
作者: yping88    时间: 7-10-2018 10:30
本帖最后由 yping88 于 7-10-2018 10:33 编辑

Current members of Justice in Supreme Court & their Political party                       

Chief Justice:

John Roberts,               Republican

Associate Justices

Clarence Thomas,         Republican

Ruth Bader Ginsburg,   Democrats

Stephen Breyer,           Democrats

Samuel Alito,               Republican

Sonia Sotomayor,       Democrats

Elena Kagan,               Democrats

Neil Gorsuch,               Republican

Brett Kavanaugh,        Republican
作者: 牧马人    时间: 7-10-2018 10:39
yping88 发表于 7-10-2018 09:58
Exactly, this pushes Australia's politics off the first chair as the butt of all jokes, doesn't it ...

Relax dear. Only crack up to laugh.

All these are just staged shows. Brexit was the very first sign but clearly indicated which direction the Anglo-Saxon countries would be steered to. The script was written by the real bosses and all the rest of the people are either part of the show including all the politicians or just audience like us.

There are only left and right among ordinary people. The top politicians are neither left or right. They still have their political stance and beliefs but what they're playing is just their roles assigned by the true bosses based somhow on their stances and characters (人设), but also on their acting capabilities.

Their job is to create concepts, ideologies, to manipulate people's mind and divide them, let them fight each other. Sometimes they need to promote far left ideology to fulfill that purpose but they still need to maintain a basic balance to prevent the whole system to fall apart. If it's too left then it needs to be turned around. That's all what it is about. What saddens me is so many people are just so easy to be manipulated and help the elites to create the division they want, especially the far left ones.
作者: yping88    时间: 7-10-2018 16:18
本帖最后由 yping88 于 7-10-2018 17:07 编辑
牧马人 发表于 7-10-2018 10:39
Relax dear. Only crack up to laugh.

All these are just staged shows. Brexit was the very first  ...


Agreed that every political system needs balance, unfortunately, not all of them are doing it very well!

However, I respectfully disagree what you said how people can get manipulated by certain ideology. In my perspective, people under democratic regime come together and get connected over the same or similar ideology and philosophy. United by the common goals, they launch campaigns, organize meet-ups, gather around in the conferences to share what they stand up for, to create propaganda making their ideology heard. Whatever you believe in, you choose to get behind the group (Left or right) who help you achieve your political ideology and ambitions, who make you feel sense of belonging!

In this modern era, freedom of speech, freedom of press have evolved to its finest scale. Everyone can seek information by exhausting all kinds of media avenues or even friends. Nobody is blindfolded or given access to only one side of the information. Nobody is a no-brainer and gets pushed around mentally by anybody or any organization, unless they believe what that organization is pushing forward and reaching at, and they will choose voluntarily to join that particular group and make that ideology and philosophy their own.

Therefore, I contest your opinion on how people can get manipulated and become anybody's followers against their will or being fooled or tricked!  
作者: 牧马人    时间: 7-10-2018 18:09
yping88 发表于 7-10-2018 16:18
Agreed that every political system needs balance, unfortunately, not all of them are doing it ve ...

I respect your faith in democracy. I wish it's that ideal but it's not. of course you can manipulate people's mind if you control the media and education. Maybe you also have faith in free media sort of concept? Doesn't exist as well. In authoritarian countries media is run by the government. In democratic countries media is run by centralized corporates.  Look a bit different on the outside but essentially they are all run by the power so they all serve the agenda of different powers. Corporates are not charity. They still have to obey the law but within the tolerance of law there is no moral obligation to prevent them to manipulate people's mind to suit their agenda. Same deal for the education system.

Why are most of the main stream media and the public education system in the West all left oriented in the past decade? The elites wanted it this way. Simple as that. And it was within these years we have had the most leftard activists, protesters and crowds in history. The majority of them happen to be the school kids and young folks. Why? Because they have experienced much in making a living; they have little idea how to raise a family and educate kids. All their resource of information for them are just media and education.
作者: yping88    时间: 9-10-2018 09:54
本帖最后由 yping88 于 9-10-2018 09:55 编辑

Wow, what a terrified, media -manipulated world!

Lucky me that I don't read, listen or watch TV much, therefore, I can sleep well at night with only simple thoughts.

Seriously, bro! Can you sleep well at night?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 9-10-2018 11:56
yping88 发表于 9-10-2018 09:54
Wow, what a terrified, media -manipulated world!

Lucky me that I don't read, listen or watch TV  ...

Busy day. Will come back tonight. Please fasten your seat belt, Ma'am.
作者: yping88    时间: 9-10-2018 17:42
牧马人 发表于 9-10-2018 11:56
Busy day. Will come back tonight. Please fasten your seat belt, Ma'am.

"Fasten your seat belt"

Well, I did like always. But, this little fella laughed it off at this traffic regulation!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 9-10-2018 19:42
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 9-10-2018 19:44 编辑
yping88 发表于 9-10-2018 09:54
Wow, what a terrified, media -manipulated world!

Lucky me that I don't read, listen or watch TV  ...


Don't worry about me, dear. I'm at least suspicious enough to see through most of the games so they can hardly have me. But as a pack of bloody con men they have been really successful haven't they? Otherwise why do so many people buy their '1/3 women have been sexually assaulted' sort of horseshit?

It's their fear mongering game. I'm not terrified at all. But if you buy their narrative you will be. Why not? As a woman living in Australia you have 30% chance to be sexually assaulted. Doesn't that scare the shit out of people? Of course it does if it's true. That's just the first step. After you buy that narrative whatever they sell furthermore you will probably take it. You will feel unsafe. You will believe there are too many sex predators out there looking for their prey. You will kind of agree men are despicable pigs otherwise how on earth can they sexually assault women to such a scale. You will feel you must stand up and do something, something noble to protect women's rights. You will join the protest to yell to scream as loud as you can 'Don't harass!' 'Don't rape!' thinking that can make some change. Then congratulations! Here we have a new modern 'feminist'. Pretty simple stuff. I've just written down the SOP(standard operation procedure) for how a feminist is manufactured.

See the problem here? You don't have to get immersed in their propaganda all the time. You buy one bait you are on the hook to be reeled in. It's really not a pleasure to see so many people so easy to fall in. You mentioned common sense but it's the common sense that failed here. 1/3 of women got sexually assaulted? That would officially make Australia as a shithole as a war torn country like Syria or a completely fuckedup country like SA. Even China is way better  than that. It's not common sense Ma'am. It's an insult to common sense yet so many people buy that w/o any critical thinking or reality check.

This is just one of the so many agenda driven narratives, but clearly the most powerful one. Others like men privilege, pay gap, my body my choice, over-weighted women are beautiful, believe women,,... you name it. We can't have enough horseshit.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 9-10-2018 20:30
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 9-10-2018 21:43 编辑
yping88 发表于 9-10-2018 09:54
Wow, what a terrified, media -manipulated world!

Lucky me that I don't read, listen or watch TV  ...


The problem I have with modern feminism is it has caused damage to the society, big time! There is some positive like #Metoo drawing attention to the sexual assault problem. But the basic narrative it's based on is a lie that made this movement into a Don Quijote mission, fighting illusionary enemies.

The negative is huge. It's destroying the traditional values for relationship and marriage wholesale. It has pushed liberty to the extreme and the balance between personal liberty and personal accountability is already broken. People have given up relationship, given up marriage, given up raising children, all in the  name of liberty. And what has the fear mongering narratives done? Did #Metoo really make progress of preventing sexual offence? Not very sure given that at the end of the day it's still police officers to tackle the offenders. But is has definitely done a great job in fostering men loathing which makes women more likely to give up relationship.

Some may say 'I'm a independent self sufficient woman. I don't need to give a fuck to relationship.' On the micro level it's absolutely fine. There are women like this though very rare. But on the macro level if too many women are turned this way then it's completely a fuckup. Relationship is good, especially the serious ones, for both men and women. So many women are poisoned by the men loathing, self-victimized sentiment and lead a bitter, miserable, unfulfilled life but they just can't get out. They still desire relationship that's why they keep complaining men are pigs. Well they are somehow correct. There are more and more men like pigs. But who to blame? Just men? Accountability is the key to make relationships work. It's the modern feminism has gone to extreme to undermine personal accountability. If taking that out of men of course they will behave like pigs and so do women!

To a lot of feminists, have you really been accountable for your relationship for your choice of life? The answer is no. Take a look at the so called pro-choice movement. Terminating the lives of their own flesh and blood in the name of liberty. Let the innocent life to bear the consequences of irresponsible pleasure abusing, by death. And they still call that progressive. WTF! If one doesn't even cherish her own flesh and blood, an innocent life, who is gonna cherish her?
作者: yping88    时间: 10-10-2018 21:44
本帖最后由 yping88 于 10-10-2018 22:36 编辑
牧马人 发表于 9-10-2018 19:42
Don't worry about me, dear. I'm at least suspicious enough to see through most of the games so t ...


Well, I am still half-asleep, half-awake after a few night shifts, will get back to you later.
作者: yping88    时间: 11-10-2018 16:52
牧马人 发表于 9-10-2018 19:42
Don't worry about me, dear. I'm at least suspicious enough to see through most of the games so t ...

1 in 5 women have experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statistics. (2017). Personal Safety Survey 2016. ABS cat. no. 4906.0. Canberra: ABS. Retrieved from: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0


Read the texts carefully, man, and do your math correctly! Heeeheee

Guess you got offended as a decent man by the daunting numbers you have crunched!

作者: yping88    时间: 11-10-2018 17:07
牧马人 发表于 9-10-2018 19:42
Don't worry about me, dear. I'm at least suspicious enough to see through most of the games so t ...

But, still 20% is a unbearable number for women of any generation to get up and do something about!

Again, you would say that the modern feminists are just the pushovers by the government-run organization's statistics, they don't go through the critical thinking process and try to make sense out of the data presented to them before deciding to support the #MeToo movement and push on this campaign!

Well, you have the freedom to hold onto your belief, bro!



作者: yping88    时间: 11-10-2018 17:31
This is just one of the so many agenda driven narratives, but clearly the most powerful one. Others like men privilege, pay gap, my body my choice, over-weighted women are beautiful, believe women,,... you name it. We can't have enough horseshit.

Without relying on any statistics, I am afraid that I don't have any issues for these agenda at all! Australia's national value is FAIR WORK, FAIR GO! Women's commitment and contribution to the society or any companies should be appreciated and valued as much as their male counterparts' if they are held the same accountability in their position. Therefore, any modern and democratic society will have to be obliged to see to it that women will not have to fight for their equality right, fight against men privilege and pay gap at all.

As for MY BODY, MY CHOICE, exactly right! What a woman would like to do to their body is totally up to them. Other than a social being, they are their own personal being as well. Anyone should be allowed to take care of themselves first, and the society comes the second! This rule applies to men all the same!

OVER-WEIGHTED WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL, never heard this slogan in any agenda. But, OVER-WEIGHTED WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL TOO would talk to me in a meaningful level. YES, those who got bullied, sneered at, looked down on or marginalized just because their nontraditional body weight decided to stand up for themselves, telling both men and women, WE ARE JUST BEAUTIFUL THE WE ARE! This doesn't belong to any feminist movement, that's groups of marginalized over-weighted women fighting for the social unjustice and discrimination imposed upon them simply due to their body weight, asserting their self-esteem and social belongings lost not through the fault of their own.
作者: yping88    时间: 11-10-2018 17:53
本帖最后由 yping88 于 11-10-2018 17:54 编辑
牧马人 发表于 9-10-2018 20:30
The problem I have with modern feminism is it has caused damage to the society, big time! There  ...


Regarding the relationship and marriage, it always takes two either to sustain and protect it or break and destroy it! I don't think anyone would walk out of a prosperous and mutually-committed relationship or marriage just because certain campaigns encourage them to!

Here, I am not gonna attack men or women as a whole, because it's not acceptable for me to negatively generalize millions of women and men, who make their due commitment and uphold their oath to their marriage and relationship just because the minority in both genders haven't treated theirs with dignity and grace.

If #MeToo campaign has already impacted (positively or negatively) the society to a scale that you fear of, and it still does nothing to reduce the sexual misconducts against women in any way, what are you gonna label men?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 11-10-2018 17:58
yping88 发表于 11-10-2018 16:52
1 in 5 women have experienced sexual violence since the age of 15.

Australian Bureau of Statist ...

I've read it ma'am. At the end of the day a survey is just a bloody survey. The question can be designed to be vague. The answer can be guided subjective. Not to mention you can cherry pick your sample to get any results you want. But if you choose to believe it no matter it represents a scenario 20 times more severe as what the stats show by the police department. Fine by me. It's your rights to do so.
作者: 牧马人    时间: 11-10-2018 18:12
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 11-10-2018 18:54 编辑
yping88 发表于 11-10-2018 17:31
This is just one of the so many agenda driven narratives, but clearly the most powerful one. Others  ...


Well, if one wants to cut her hair, punch a hole on her nose, get a tattoo then fine coz it is indeed her body. But a baby get a separate DNA. It's another individual life. Another life happens to be in a woman's body is NOT part of her body.

But I know we're not getting anywhere on this. Modern feminism is all about cherry picking. Anything that favors the 'feminists' they will keep it but even their own standard turns against them they can still use double standard to get around it. If a baby is a part of your body they why the heck people need to give seats to you on bus? I can guarantee they are not that feminist when it comes to this. In most of countries that still have death penalty pregnant women are exempt. If it's still just part of her body why can execute her? It's just one life.

Anyway I never get blood on my hands, never will and never will approve people doing so. If anybody else wants to kill or approves killing then it's their choice. I can't respect it and can do nothing about given the law is twisted so much. But I won't be the one who gets hurt. They will get what they deserve, in both micro level and macro level.

And for the over weighted women or men, you can believe how ever beautiful you are and it's your business. But at the end of the day you also get what you deserve, no matter how you feel, in relationship in life and in health.
作者: yping88    时间: 11-10-2018 21:13
牧马人 发表于 11-10-2018 18:12
Well, if one wants to cut her hair, punch a hole on her nose, get a tattoo then fine coz it is i ...

You know what, bro!

I don't think I should talk about any woman's choice about abortion unless I step into their shoes!

Judging or defending them, either way, I can't start a conversation without comprehending what circumstances they found themselves in. Therefore, talking about anyone's decision to keep or terminate a pregnancy (Which should be between a husband and wife) as an outsider, has already boiled down to further degrading a woman who couldn't keep her baby for whatever reason!

Then, I take a strong stance not to go there!

However, I agree with you that all lives matter and should be respected. However, I also believe that this respect should be extended to the pregnant women who make the informed call to terminate the pregnancy for whatever reasons.  

Here, I think I need to remind you of a fact that many women do sacrifice their own lives to bring a human being into this world!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 11-10-2018 22:27
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 11-10-2018 22:31 编辑
yping88 发表于 11-10-2018 21:13
You know what, bro!

I don't think I should talk about any woman's choice about abortion unless ...


I don't need to step in to the shoes of either slave owners or slaves to say slavery is immoral neither do you. Why do we have to step into someone's shoes to judge whether terminating innocent lives is right or wrong? Oh, killing her own baby must be so difficult for a woman, poor girl. Oh, Ma'am The majority of murderers did not kill for joy and it was a bloody tough decision for them and it degrade them too. So we are suppose to feel sympathetic for them?

it's not that difficult for one to be against slavery, especially when slaves might rise up, when their roar is heard by everybody and their force becomes fierce. It would be dangerous to be for slavery. It's not difficult for one to be against murder because anybody can be subject to murder including oneself.

But speaking for the unborn is very different. Taking sides with the angry modern feminists is not only safe but also can be somehow empowered. While speaking for the absolutely powerless, voiceless lives will give you nothing. But that's where to people's conscience to the real test. I'm sorry to see that many people just failed this test by choosing saving some inconvenience for some selfish women over LIVES.

And what's the logic in the last bit? Because some women are heroes so I have to approve other women who are scumbags?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 11-10-2018 22:38
本帖最后由 牧马人 于 11-10-2018 22:45 编辑
yping88 发表于 11-10-2018 17:53
Regarding the relationship and marriage, it always takes two either to sustain and protect it or ...


If #MeToo campaign has already impacted (positively or negatively) the society to a scale that you fear of, and it still does nothing to reduce the sexual misconducts against women in any way, what are you gonna label men?

Is this a valid question? Why do you still take assumption that the focus of #MeToo is on genuine issues? If the issues it's addressing are lies, as a matter of fact they are, rape culture is a lie and 20% or 30% having been sexually assaulted is also a lie, then of course it will do little. Do you really think a few angry birds can scare off rapists? Come on. Rapists are only afraid of cops and guns. So I can guarantee you dear, at least in the US the right wing chicks are a lot safer.
作者: yping88    时间: 12-10-2018 07:39
本帖最后由 yping88 于 12-10-2018 08:15 编辑

Ok, my dear friend. Guess it is hardly possible for us to reach an agreement on these issues right now. But, I acknowledge how you feel about them and I treasure your perspective on how valuable the lives are!

Maybe one day, I will come around and totally share your believe, but right now, I am not sure that our debate could reach the same destany. So rather than to upset you further and provoke you to drop off more F bombs, I see fit that we both sit on this debate at this stage.

And, there is a good reason for you to rest assured that Kavanaugh is sitting in the US supreme court now and he will sure rule those issues in your favor!

One thing for sure that I have learned massive from you and I really have enjoyed our arguments/discussion.

Now, let's attend the other topics launched but neglected for days!
作者: 牧马人    时间: 13-10-2018 12:20
yping88 发表于 12-10-2018 07:39
Ok, my dear friend. Guess it is hardly possible for us to reach an agreement on these issues right n ...

It was absolutely a pleasure having this argument with you. And glad to see it made you think, I believe. That's all what it's about.

Though last week turned out a good one for Kavanaugh I find it hard to rest. The abortion probably won't go much further in the US. But what about oz? Tens of thousand innocent lives get terminated each year in oz, more than the gun violence casualty in the US which many left wingers got pretty upset about but they seem totally cool with the lives killed in abortion and whose bodies were disposed as medical wastes.

They don't have a voice. Then I'll make a voice for them today. This is the least I can do. Heading to Melbourne city now. # MarchForTheBabies

作者: yping88    时间: 13-10-2018 12:52
牧马人 发表于 13-10-2018 12:20
It was absolutely a pleasure having this argument with you. And glad to see it made you think, I b ...

Good on you, to stand up for what you believe in!
作者: yping88    时间: 13-10-2018 13:00
牧马人 发表于 13-10-2018 12:20
It was absolutely a pleasure having this argument with you. And glad to see it made you think, I b ...

I understand that you feel the pain to look at those STATISTICS and make this pain personal. Kudos to you on taking actions on it and speaking up for those who are voiceless!

But, I am not trying to make little of your pain here, but TENS OF THOUSANDS? Unbelievable and daunting, isn't it?
作者: 牧马人    时间: 13-10-2018 14:30
yping88 发表于 13-10-2018 13:00
I understand that you feel the pain to look at those STATISTICS and make this pain personal. Kudos ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Australia

It's real. The number of abortion is not something people can rig.



欢迎光临 FreeOZ论坛 (https://www.freeoz.org/bbs/) Powered by Discuz! X3.2