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标题: 一：他们要继续等。二：我不需要道歉。三：不退钱。 [打印本页]

作者: wolf 时间: 29-12-2009 23:11
标题: 一：他们要继续等。二：我不需要道歉。三：不退钱。
Chris Evans语录：

Chris Evans: We determine the size of the migration program. Quite frankly, if we decide it's going to be 10,000 people next year, they might be waiting for 20 or 30 years. 如果我们明年只批1万人，那么，剩男剩女们就可能继续等20年或30年。

Chris Evans: Yes, it may well be. Obviously the last figures I had was about 30,000 onshore and 105,000 offshore. 剩男剩女们包括3万onshore的和10万5千offshore的。

Chris Evans: No, I don't apologise. I mean I accept that there are some cases where people feel aggrieved, and they've not fared well out of the changes, but you've got to have a cut-off date. 不，我不道歉。必须要有一个cut-off日期。

Chris Evans: when I came to government, I just thought this is crazy, we're not prioritising the people we need, we've got a queue based on, if you like date of application rather than based on the needs of Australia. 我来到政府时，简直认为这是发疯---我们不是按照我们需要的人来优先。

Chris Evans: But we're certainly not in the position at the moment to offer refunds, in fact the legislation prevents it. 我们当然不退钱，有法律撑腰。

。。。。。。。。。。。

[ 本帖最后由 wolf 于 29-12-2009 23:25 编辑 ]

作者: hsuehhan 时间: 30-12-2009 00:24
提示: 作者被禁止或删除, 无法发言 等20-30年！天！直接拒了我好了。

作者: viac 时间: 30-12-2009 00:25
这个伊文斯很狂很欠揍

作者: 神风 时间: 30-12-2009 00:47
的确很欠揍

作者: sundaliang 时间: 30-12-2009 00:48
思想很直接, 手法很粗暴, 感覺沒什么內涵的一個家伙

作者: sinbad 时间: 30-12-2009 13:18
说实话，虽然对一些同志来说很残酷，我倒是觉得如果就他所处的立场来说，他没有错，澳洲政府的确应该按照需求来优先处理

作者: insidee 时间: 30-12-2009 13:27
中文翻译挺有煽动性，尤其是最后一句话：
Chris Evans: But we're certainly not in the position at the moment to offer refunds, in fact the legislation prevents it. 我们当然不退钱，有法律撑腰。

作者: 我的霍巴特 时间: 30-12-2009 13:53
高手，翻译。。

作者: anzbank 时间: 30-12-2009 13:56
这个部长说的还是比较白阿，可以含蓄一点

作者: Bill_Fish 时间: 30-12-2009 14:05
翻译的粗鲁了些，而且等20-30年只是人家假设，别当真好不好，深层意思就是，人家想怎么审批就怎么审批，其他人无权说三道四，让你等30年也很正常。
如果你拿到了PR或者是澳洲公民，你的立场就发生变化了，你可能真的不希望很多连蒙带虎的的低素质人群涌入澳洲。假设你是个会计，你也希望以后来的会计少一些，虽然会计现在就已经爆棚了，随便抓一个中国移民一半都是会计，所以站在澳洲的角度讲，选择合适的高素质人才来才是目的，以前的政策就是只要提交了申请并且在前面就一定通过审批，换个角度想作为offshore申请者那些tafe毕业没有经验的学生都排在你前面的，实际上它们的竞争力还真未必比你强，你在国内和十几亿人竞争并且获得了一个不错的位置，你的能力肯定会比刚毕业的学生强吧，但是他们就是排在你前面，占用你的名额，你怎么想？移民部长从更总体的角度看了一下，理发师比科学家还排名靠前者明显不合理，所以大家不用慌，你是人才一定能成功，澳洲只是想把那些浑水摸鱼的清除掉。

[ 本帖最后由 Bill_Fish 于 30-12-2009 14:06 编辑 ]

作者: 超级小懒 时间: 30-12-2009 15:48

原帖由 Bill_Fish 于 30-12-2009 14:05 发表

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翻译的粗鲁了些，而且等20-30年只是人家假设，别当真好不好，深层意思就是，人家想怎么审批就怎么审批，其他人无权说三道四，让你等30年也很正常。
如果你拿到了PR或者是澳洲公民，你的立场就发生变化了，你可能真的 ...

如果真是这样就好，就怕大家一起清除了

作者: viac 时间: 30-12-2009 16:54
只有职业分工不同没有高低贵贱之分

换句话说高低贵贱的背后是出身是命不是那么容易改变的

作者: TtiGeR 时间: 30-12-2009 17:05
非常断章取义。

Peter Mares: Well your Department's put out some information when you made changes to priority processing on 23rd September this year, and in those changes it says to people they will have to wait if they're onshore applicants, and they're not on what's called the Critical Skills List, and they're not sponsored by an employer, they will wait until the end of 2011 before their application is processed at least. And applicants from offshore will wait until at least the end of 2012 before their applications are processed. Now if that's not being on hold, I don't know what is.

Chris Evans: Well they've always had to wait. We determine the size of the migration program. Quite frankly, if we decide it's going to be 10,000 people next year, they might be waiting for 20 or 30 years. The point is, we're trying to give them an indication, on the current policy settings, and current levels of migration, about when they're likely to have their application considered. But applying to migrate to Australia doesn't give you a right to migrate to Australia.

Chris的意思说：申请人总是要等的(少则一天，多则几年。要等多久？取决于移民项目的规模。)我们决定移民项目的规模。坦白说，如果我们决定明年只有1万个配额，那恐怕就要等20或30年了。关键在于，我们试图给他们一个预期，根据目前的政策，目前的移民项目水平（指规模），他们的申请大约在什么时候可能被考虑（审理）。但是，申请移民澳大利亚本身不意味着你有权移民澳大利亚。

显然20或30年只是个极端的比方而已。可以反感Evans，但请不要断章取义。

Peter Mares: People of course do take their chances, but they were given indications about how long it might take, and many people have already been in the system 18 months, and some were at the top of the queue, they had case officers assigned, they were asked for the final health checks, these are people offshore. In other words, they were a couple of weeks away from a visa on all normal indications. Now they're told they're back at the bottom of the queue. I mean you can understand - I mean do you make an apology to those people for what's happened?

Chris Evans: No, I don't apologise. I mean I accept that there are some cases where people feel aggrieved, and they've not fared well out of the changes, but you've got to have a cut-off date. If you make a change, you've got to make a change on a certain date, and what we did is, we said 'We want to better prioritise which skills come into the country. We can't to actually do it in the national interest. What we had is, under the previous system, we had hairdressers being processed in front of doctors and engineers, because of the date of their application, when we were crying out for medical professionals. And when I came to government, I just thought this is crazy, we're not prioritising the people we need, we've got a queue based on, if you like date of application rather than based on the needs of Australia. And we are trying to reconfigure the system to get a more rational system in place. The Critical Skills List is part of that, but there's a range of other changes being planned which will change some of the fundamentals of the system.

Chris说，他不道歉，因为他觉得任何政策变更都要有cut-off日期。不管他说的话有没有道理，已不再重要。因为他后来自己改变了看法，曾经到了最后阶段的州担保在此之后出现了一批被批准的情况，正是对这个问题的回应。

但是优先级的确是Chris个人的发明，事实上移民法也赋予了他调整优先级的权力，他认为，应该从澳洲需求出发。尽管对很多申请人是很残酷的改变，但站在澳洲国家利益的立场，是有一定道理的。

Chris Evans: What I'm saying to you Peter is that while I know you're sympathetic to their cause, it's not an accurate description of what occurs. The situation is, and has been for many years, we have more people apply for migration to Australia than places available, and the Australian government reserves the right to set the annual migration intake. Now what we've seen in the last year or two in particular, is a large increase in people seeking to migrate to Australia, out of countries that are often having economic downturns, and when we had our own downturning economy, we reduced the size of the migration program. So that's going to have an impact on waiting times. All we do is try and predict for people when they're likely to be processed. Now I accept that people pay fees etc. and I've actually asked my Department to have a look at whether we can't do something in terms of people who've paid fees and application fees and then seek to discontinue their application because I do think the current system doesn't do well in that area. But we're not going to take in more migrants to this country if we don't think they're going to have good economic outcomes, or they don't meet the national interest of Australia, and while there may be people in the queue and they may be impacted, I'm not going to make a decision that says We're driven by the number of people in the queue as to how many people we allow to migrate to Australia.

...
从粗体字这段看，Chris的意思是他已经让移民部的人着手研究如果申请人想要放弃申请能否退费的问题，因为他觉得目前的系统在这方面不是很合理。
主持人Peter因此有了如下的提问。

Peter Mares: Coming back to an issue raised before, the fact that these people, the people in the queue, feel very aggrieved about the amount of money they've spent on these applications. You suggested you will offer a refund, you'll consider offering a refund to any migrant in this queue who says 'Well I'm pulling out because I can't wait five years, or however long it might be.'

主持人觉得Chris是用一种婉转的方式表达退费在未来是可能的。对此，主持人再次向Chris确认这一点。

Chris Evans: No, Peter I don't want to overstate it. What I was I've asked the Department to have a look at how the current system works, because I think it is the case that we keep accepting applications from people who may never qualify and I think we've got to be able to do better than that. And I've asked them to look at alternative systems, and that would help us deal with the fact that people are paying money when they may not be much chance of making it, if you like, and I've also sought to see if we can't have better systems so that people aren't paying that money upfront. But we're certainly not in the position at the moment to offer refunds, in fact the legislation prevents it.

Chris表示，他不想说过头（不想给出无法保证的承诺）。他甚至让部门的人研究，是不是可以不要在申请时付费，而是等到要批准了再付？但是，目前无法退费，因为事实上法律不允许。

已经一个多月前的内容了，坛子里也发过几个帖子了，又拿出来炒作，不知何意。

想要推翻也好，改变状况也好，是要抓住他们的真正痛脚（目前还没有，但如果‘清除’的话，或许就有了，或许就可以集体诉讼了——当然，是境内），而不是靠曲解。断章取义对此毫无益处。

[ 本帖最后由 TtiGeR 于 30-12-2009 17:24 编辑 ]

作者: lenienter 时间: 30-12-2009 17:11
澳洲还是根据需要来的，人才不人才的不要紧，关键看需要。

作者: 超级小懒 时间: 30-12-2009 17:48

原帖由 TtiGeR 于 30-12-2009 17:05 发表

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非常断章取义。

Peter Mares: Well your Department's put out some information when you made changes to priority processing on 23rd September this year, and in those changes it says to people they wil ...

既然清除可以抓住痛脚，他们还会清除吗？或者只是清除部分，跟CSL一样分化掉一批人，这样就闹不起来了？

作者: Vivafree 时间: 30-12-2009 18:16
But we're certainly not in the position at the moment to offer refunds, in fact the legislation prevents it.

我们目前肯定还不太适合退款，事实上法律也阻止我们这么做。

作者: shenzy 时间: 31-12-2009 00:50
lz的翻译。。。。。。。

作者: wolf 时间: 31-12-2009 01:25
对于非CSL，各位仍旧和我一样苦等未来的，严酷的现实摆在这里，头脑应该都很清醒。

各位的英文，应该完全具备雅思6分的水准。所以，原文的翻译，不需要我来“教导”各位，这个字那个字分别是什么意思。

英文原文，实际上各位看了都明白。

我没有翻错那个家伙的任何语句，就是用以简单字词调侃一下，苦中作“乐”罢了。

展望2010年，不知剩男剩女们又有何打算，命运给了我们如此一个交代，看来年罢，希望各位转运，好运。

作者: wolf 时间: 31-12-2009 01:33

原帖由 viac 于 30-12-2009 16:54 发表

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只有职业分工不同没有高低贵贱之分

换句话说高低贵贱的背后是出身是命不是那么容易改变的

坦诚地说，那个部长的英文全文也没有说过高低贵贱。虽然我们遭此“优先”，但请不要feel inferior，只要有时间。

作者: wolf 时间: 31-12-2009 01:44
对于我个人来说，

通篇全文，我只看见这一句话是最相当致命，可以说是全文给我印象最深刻的一句话： But applying to migrate to Australia doesn't give you a right to migrate to Australia.

有句成语，这里就不放上来了。

作者: anson1986 时间: 31-12-2009 14:58
1111111

[ 本帖最后由 anson1986 于 2-1-2010 10:56 编辑 ]

作者: 我爱猫眯 时间: 31-12-2009 15:21
感觉像股市
震荡洗盘

作者: wolf 时间: 31-12-2009 15:34

原帖由 anson1986 于 31-12-2009 14:58 发表

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说实话不愿意听，不说实话大家又爱起哄说移民局不给个说法。
.........
也许楼主会说我们拿到签证的可以说风凉话，但是，就是因为我们这些拿到签证的在这渡过了金融危机这一年， ...

首先，这里没有人起哄，不要随便戴三个手表。

其次，你渡过了金融危机这一年，很好，真的很好。没有人说你讲风凉话。

再次，我现在也决定支持移民部的决定， we might run a bigger migration program next year if the economy was on the up, and that might see people get through more quickly，这句话可以作为2009年最后一天的安慰奖。双赢。

作者: 超级小懒 时间: 31-12-2009 16:03

原帖由 anson1986 于 31-12-2009 14:58 发表

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说实话不愿意听，不说实话大家又爱起哄说移民局不给个说法。
But applying to migrate to Australia doesn't give you a right to migrate to Australia，个人不觉得有什么问题啊！
难道申请一份工作就代表绝对能申 ...

我们申请的时候没人和我们说过这话。再说你觉得申请工作和这是一回事吗？现在还有这种拖家带口，申请批准后就一直到老基本不变的工作？？？对他们来说或许只是一个business contract，对我们是一生的契约。正是因为理解这是经济危机造成的原因，才会有那么多人一直在等，并没有抗议或者之类的过激举动。我们也希望在理解别人的同时被别人理解，可是听听部长先生是怎么说的：他觉得不需要道歉。

[ 本帖最后由超级小懒于 31-12-2009 16:10 编辑 ]

作者: 超级小懒 时间: 31-12-2009 16:06

原帖由 anson1986 于 31-12-2009 14:58 发表

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说实话不愿意听，不说实话大家又爱起哄说移民局不给个说法。
But applying to migrate to Australia doesn't give you a right to migrate to Australia，个人不觉得有什么问题啊！
难道申请一份工作就代表绝对能申 ...

看来无论政府做什么样的决定你都支持的，那如果明天政府说经济形势太坏了，现在下过签的都遣送回去，你也支持？？？貌似公司处于自身考虑裁员也是可以的吧

作者: wolf 时间: 31-12-2009 16:19
屁股决定脑袋。这句话不是一个真理。但是这句话在这个社会，在这个世界的大多数环境下适用。

所以，某些人，无需再掏心窝子向别人亮明现在的立场。

期望将来你好，我也好。

作者: viac 时间: 31-12-2009 20:02

原帖由 anson1986 于 31-12-2009 14:58 发表

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说实话不愿意听，不说实话大家又爱起哄说移民局不给个说法。
But applying to migrate to Australia doesn't give you a right to migrate to Australia，个人不觉得有什么问题啊！
难道申请一份工作就代表绝对能申 ...

此言差矣这和找工作没什么关系

当你人生的大事成败被别人掌控儿女的命运被推向风口浪尖时别人煽动也好起哄也好都是不脱离实际的。

申请人终究无错

作者: cherub 时间: 31-12-2009 20:20
所以，签证申请就是十根竹签子扎手指头，申请多久扎多久

作者: jackieboy 时间: 1-1-2010 00:38
标题: 回复 #21 anson1986 的帖子
。。。
[update by miller]请注意言辞。。。有话好好说！

[ 本帖最后由 MillerYang 于 31-12-2009 21:57 编辑 ]

作者: wolf 时间: 9-11-2010 20:50
Chris Evans-----你今天还好吗?

作者: alan-t.wu 时间: 9-11-2010 22:47
就希望能退钱就好了。

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